First-Gen S10 Corner Carver

[Arctic_Ragtop]

Awesome project. Alot of work has been put into this truck, looks great!

[jerome]

Gas filler frenched in:




Inside of the bed showing how much had to be cut. Will get some sort of cover:

[silvermonte]

For the cutoff switch and all the other stuff for the battery, was that a kit or something you put together?

[langleylad]

Who manufactured your gas cap / filler neck ? . I've got an 88 S10 with the whole ridetech setup , warmed over 4.3 and is a blast to drive ( a big go-kart ). This thing should be a hand full .

[jerome]

For the cutoff switch and all the other stuff for the battery, was that a kit or something you put together?

It wasn't a kit, but all the parts are available through Waytek Wire and Quickcar. I can help with part numbers and how to connect it all if you're looking to put toget

Who manufactured your gas cap / filler neck ? . I've got an 88 S10 with the whole ridetech setup , warmed over 4.3 and is a blast to drive ( a big go-kart ). This thing should be a hand full .

Sounds like a cool project, you should put up some pictures on your build thread! It's made by Newton in the UK, but it's available through Fuel Safe. You have to special order the "lead free flap" version that necks down for the gas pump fillers, but they can get it within a couple of weeks. Here is the product page.

Got word from Randy that he was able to drive it up and down the street today!

[langleylad]

Sounds like a cool project, you should put up some pictures on your build thread! ..................... Here it is

[silvermonte]

It wasn't a kit, but all the parts are available through Waytek Wire and Quickcar. I can help with part numbers and how to connect it all if you're looking to put toget

I would like to know the cut off switches that you used and how they are wired. I didnt realize you could wire them in a series like that and have both of them work. I always thought you could only have one and either place it outside of the vehicle or inside.

[jerome]

I would like to know the cut off switches that you used and how they are wired. I didnt realize you could wire them in a series like that and have both of them work. I always thought you could only have one and either place it outside of the vehicle or inside.

This is the switch I used. It's basically a solid state relay that turns on when it sees greater than +8V and turns off when it sees less than +4V. You can run a wire directly from the +12v battery through any number of switches in series into the control input and the relay will only activate when all the switches are closed.

I'm not sure if it would be NHRA legal or legal with any other racing sanctioning bodies.

[syborg tt]

So when does the tear down and paint stage begin ?

[jerome]

So when does the tear down and paint stage begin ?

I hoping to get some testing done on track in the next couple of weeks to make sure there is no more cutting/welding before paint. What's left on the list is:

Shave old gas door
Cover in the bed for the gas filler
Weld bulkhead tabs to move fuel lines away from tire area
A/C builkheads in firewall

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Additionally, I have been thinking about the ultimate wheel and tire package that I want to run.

The original thinking on the stock C5 wheels and tires was that the C5 is about 3,200lbs, which I think the S10 will probably come close to. Given that this was good enough for the Corvette, it would be good enough for the S10. Additionally, the Ford Explorer 8.8 rearend was the perfect width to use C5 rear wheels without spacers, frame modifications, or rearend narrowing. At the time, my budget was far smaller, and repro C5 wheels were dirt cheap. I now can afford better tires and lighter wheels, but still want to be somewhat conscious of not going with $350 tires just to have the widest tires out there without warranting needing all that grip.

After reading Terry's (Vorshlag) numerous posts on BFG Rivals and wider tires being better and hearing from Randy that he had no problem breaking the rear tires loose with light throttle, I started rethinking the wheel and tire choice.

I can think of several ways to get more traction, with each successive option getting pricier and more ridiculous looking:

1. I think alot of Randy's comment on not enough rear traction might be taken care of with newer rubber. The tires on there are cheap Sumitomos that are probably hard from sitting for the last 8 years. I could go with BFG Rivals on the wheels I have now: 17x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear. BFG makes the Rivals in 245/40ZR17 and 275/35ZR18.

2. The next step up would likely require a slight flare to cover the wheels. These would be OEM C5ZO6 wheels in 17x9.5 front and 18x10.5 rear, or a square setup with 18x10.5 all around and 315/30ZR18 BFG Rivals. I think I have a source for the OEM 18x10.5 rears new for $1,200/set:



I could source OEM flares like this:


3. Finally, I could go to 18x12 rears and however wide I can go in the front with a "budget" wheel like the Forgestar F14 for about $1,200/set. This would let me run 335/30ZR18 BFG Rivals in the rear (and possibly all the way around)



I would probably have to step up to offroad flares from Warn (if I can find them in stock) like this:




Now for the tech:
1. How wide would it be prudent to go for the intended use (mixed autocross, road race, street) and weight (3,200 lbs)?

a) Is there such a thing as too wide for autocross? My reading and research suggests that wider is better, but I am not sure whether you start seeing diminishing returns.

b) Is it too wide for road racing? From my reading, it seems there would be more rolling resistance, but the wider tire would be able to take more heat and thus better.

c) Is it too wide for street use? Tramlining, steering effort, hydroplaning, etc. - does anyone have any experience with a tire this wide for cruising around town?

2. Finally, whichever route I go with, I will be using a positive offset corvette-like fitment wheel (to accomodate the wide rearend). The front currently is setup to use a conventional backspaced wheel, which is why I have a 2"+ wheel adapter to use the C5 front wheel. I am planning on going with longer control arms to push the spindle out to meet the wheel.

a) This will let me get rid of the spacer (I know it's strong, but I don't love the idea or the aesthetics of the spacer) and gain more room for brake cooling ducts. This won't be the easiest change, but I think it will be doable. The sleeves on the upper control arms can just be changed out for longer units, as can the tie rod adjuster sleeve. The lower control arms will need to be fabricated and this will be the most difficult part. Additionally, the sway bar arms may need to be re-done. I think the coilover may still work with potentially a spring swap to account for it the additional angle changing the motion ratio. Am I missing anything obvious that would make it difficult technically to do this?

b) This creates a whole host of geometry changes, and I have not measured all the pickup points and run the analysis, but I am thinking that it will not change camber curves much, since the control arm angles will all be almost the same, just less angle change per inch of travel. Are there any flaws in this thinking and reasons why longer control arms might be a bad thing? The major benefit will be in reducing the scrub radius, which if I keep the stock C5 wheels and extend the control arms will be +10mm like in a stock C5. I've gathered that low scrub is a good thing, but I have no idea what the target should be, as I've also read that having some is good for steering feel.

Any input here would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Jerome

[brawls43]

I would think you should have plenty of power to overcome the added rolling resistance of wider tire. I prefer running square setups, so I don't need to bring as many spare tires. On my Lexus SC400 race car, we make about 260hp/3000lb and run 275's all around. With higher power levels, I'd love to run 315's. I'd balance tire cost and wheel cost. Depending on your offset, check out some of the cast Enkei wheels. They're super light, yet durable. I think my 17x9.5 RPF1's are 16.25lb. Ditching unsprung mass is good, especially as you add heavier (ie wider) tires. I wouldn't be scared to jump to 315 or 335 if the budget can handle it.

[silvermonte]

Im sure you have seen from some of my post Jerome, but a 275 will fit up front with a very slight rub on the frame, I did it with a 2" drop spindle and 17s. I havnt put on my AFX spindles yet and seen how much better the fitment is.

[FirstGenZq8]

I would probably have to step up to offroad flares from Warn (if I can find them in stock) like this:

hey jerome, back in august of 2012 i emailed with russell smith at warn customer service ([email protected], 800-543-9276) and asked if they had any installed pics of their 26558 & 26736 flares for '82-93 S-10 pickups and got this response:

No pics at this time. Generally you will get about 2.5” of coverage. I attached the install instructions so you can see what modifications are needed.

i PM'ed you my email address so if you'd like the install instructions, just reply with your email address.

all that said i've always wanted a meatier set of flares, but i just haven't bit the bullet. bushwacker discontinued all but their cutout flares for the first gen trucks, so they're a no-go. the only pics i've found on the net of warn's 26558 & 26736 flares are of that red lifted first gen that you posted. the thing that i'm unsure of is in that pic, the part of the flare nearest the door at the bottom, i can't tell if that is some sort of mud-catcher or if it's an optical illusion. any ideas?

[newmexicosaint]

Man this is one cool truck. keep up the good work man and hats off for your persistence!! KILLER pickup!!

[HectorM52]

Updates?

[syborg tt]

Personally I would look at the 1le Camaro and you will see that it has a square set up. However the rear rim is wider which give the rear tire a slightly wider profile and a shorter sidewall.

From talking with the a couple guys about setting up cars for Track use significantly wider in the rear is not optimum. However on a short course like autocross where you need traction is he helpful.

Just remember the wider the front tire the more it is going to follow the depressions in the road when your driving it on the street.

[jerome]

I was able to drive the truck at Pacific Raceways back in January! Here is a video of the startup and pulling out of the lot:


Unfortunately, the on-track video isn't the best since the track is wet and there was no windshield, so the sound is just wind noise (turn it down):


It was very easy to drive and stable at speed. Tires were old and the track was wet, so it was very easy to get oversteer with the slightest amount of throttle, but for the most part it was very predicable and controllable. The 12.7:1 steering ratio felt much faster than anything I have driven, but it actually felt very natural. Brakes and clutch master cylinders weren't really optimized so brakes didn't feel very powerful and the clutch pedal sat really high, but those are all issues that can be fixed. Overall, I was really happy with how it drove.

Regarding wheel and tire choice, I bought 4 TSW Nurburgring wheels in 18x10.5" +65 offset and 4 Hankook Ventus R-S3 tires in 285/35ZR18. The rears bolt up just fine, protruding from the bedside about 1" (the old 9.5" wheels were flush). The fronts will be setup with the same 1" poking out from the fender with a small amount of negative camber. I'll get rid of the spacer I was using to run the C5 wheels and move the spindle out to meet the wheels. This will get me to a scrub radius of 21mm, which is more than the stock C5 scrub radius of 10mm, but still a very modest amount. I should only lose a slight bit of turning radius.

The inspiration for the color I think I will go with (Porsche Aquamarine) is this 356:

Here's a thread with a miata painted that color with modern paint. It looks great with red accents, so I'm thinking about how I can incorporate some red. Maybe something like this:


Firstgenzq8, I hope you don't mind me stealing one of your pics to show a photoshop of the new wheels, since your paint color is so similar to the one I am looking for:


Additionally, I was able to get a set of the Warn fender flares off of Craigslist, so I will be seeing how well they fit and deciding between those and the stock black flares like on the picture above. I may just keep the stock flares to keep it relatively modest looking for the street and if I ever get into more competitive autocross, I could run the wider flares with 18x12 tires and 335 Rivals.

[syborg tt]

Looks great and sounds just as good.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Awesome truck! Some inspiration in there for sure.

[andrewb70]

I like the blue with the red accents. Maybe do a Grand Sport stripe on the fender in red? On the shade of blue that is on the Porsche an orange stripe would look really good too. Think GT40 in Gulf livery.

Andrew