Project WidowMaker - The Chevelle Build Thread

[The WidowMaker]

i got the passenger side shell lined up. i had previously fit the old door to the new fender and had made a bunch of relief cuts to make it work. i ended up having to do it all over again, but the results are well worth it. i still have about 6" to go on the bottom of the door and then i'll throw the hood back on and keep working it.

also, i contribute pics but very little tech. so.... heres some for you. if you are going with a magnum for your car and you buy the bare trans, the chevy t56 wiring pigtails wont work with the chevy magnum. the reverse solenoid is the same, but the reverse lights are different and the vss is from a ford. i ended up getting the reverse solenoid and light harnesses from Bill Harloe ([email protected]). $24 shipped to my door and the tremec vendors wanted $60 plus shipping. i have sourced the vss for $8 and will be ordering it in a couple days.

heres a pic of the door to fender.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Nice gaps Tim! I was wondering what the deal was when you mentioned the bare trans/harness issue. Question for you, If I'm not running reverse lights will I still have a harness issue w this trans?

[The WidowMaker]

Question for you, If I'm not running reverse lights will I still have a harness issue w this trans?

there are no actual issues with the harness, its just that the kits on ebay wont work since they are only good for the chevy t56. the reverse solenoid is the same but the vss is different. once i get my ford vss i will post the site.

Tim

[The WidowMaker]

i finished up the passenger side fender and remounted the hood today. if its not raining tomorrow i will get the hood gaps complete. if it is raining i plan on remaking the seat brackets to drop the seat another 1 3/4". im also going to get the harness bar bent while i still have the bender. i need to take it back on sunday so ive got to be done.

here is a pic of the harnesses from the source posted above. these are for the reverse solenoid and the reverse lights. the vss will be coming soon.

[The WidowMaker]

i finished up the hood today and will blow it apart later this week to gap the doors and the fenders. so far i have just got the contours on the door and fenders to match. i now need to go back and weld up the relief cuts and then spend a lot of time evening out the gaps.

i also got the harness bar bent up and the seats lowered. the seats ended up dropping 1 3/4 in the rear and about 3/4 up front. i wanted the base rocked back a little and the new mounts do that really well. my head is now much further from the roof and i think the seats look a lot better in the car as well. i dont like seats that are too tall, and these seem to fit good. as far as the harness bar, the plan is to make it removable and use the permanent stubs to mount my 3 point belts. i would really like to make it so that i dont have to remove the 3pts to mount the bar, but im not thinking its going to work out that way. im VERY concerned with the stubs sticking out past the door panel and becoming an object that a rear seat passenger could strike their head on. i have a few ideas to keep them recessed with very little (<1") exposed. more to come.

i know a lot of guys dont like screwing with safety systems that the oem put in their cars (for very good reasons), but i have every bit of confidence that the plan is extremely over engineered. the amount of weld surface holding the stubs and the strength of the material that its being welded to only reinforce my confidence. one only has to look under the car near the rear seat to find a 1/8" plate on the underside of the sheetmetal that the seatbelts bolt to. this plate spreads the load on the stock sheemetal floor and was suffiicent enough that 4 bolts held 3 bodies. since im already having to do the same thing on my trans tunnel to get the inside bolts for the front seats, im not worried about having to do it for the harness bar.

some may question the belt angle needed to achieve my goals. after a lot of research, ive found that the best angle is 0*. either up or down starts to comprimise the belts ability to do its job, and too far down can compress the spine as well. i have read and been told by a couple different seat belt manufactures and a seat company that anything less than 20* is perfectly acceptable. with my 6'3" frame, im the worst case scenario in my car. my shoulder height with the new seat brackets is 24" from a reference point. the center of the tubing is at about 21.5" and im thinking that i can get the belt at somewhere north of 20". the belt will also mount 16" behind my shoulder. the math shows ~14* for the 4" drop and allows a 5.82" drop before i hit 20*. i think im well within the spec. i had considered the belt slipping off my shoulder due to its lower height, but mockup shows that with the distance behind the shoulder this doesnt even come close to happening.

photobucket is down right now, so i'll post up some pics when i can.

[The WidowMaker]

i didnt get much done today. i started welding up all the relief cuts in the drivers side fender, but some of the welds decided to move a little. i spent the day making it all work again.

here are the pics of the harness bar. i will get better pics once the installation gets a little further.

[GrabberGT]

Would you mind sharing some pics of the harness bar mounting location. Im looking at doing something similar.

[The WidowMaker]

Would you mind sharing some pics of the harness bar mounting location. Im looking at doing something similar.

i'll see if i can get you some. it will be tuesday before i am home though.

[The WidowMaker]

Would you mind sharing some pics of the harness bar mounting location. Im looking at doing something similar.

not a good pic, but you'll get the idea. this is a very strong piece of sheetmetal, and is actually 2 pieces thick on my chevelle. the plan is to form a piece of 1/8th plate that starts at the top of the quarter, drops the ~1", comes out horizontal under the tube, and then drops down the quarter another ~8". i need to look into the window and window motor mounting, but i could weld my 1/8" plate all the way back to the tub. this would be the strongest mount on the car if done like i plan.

[The WidowMaker]

well, im still working on the gapping. never in a million years would i have expected it to take this long. if i can keep on my current schedule, ill be done with the sheetmetal in mid may. thats about 2 months behind schedule.

ive been looking into seatbelts some more and i am trying to narrow down my choices. i would really like to just call up morris classics, but he repackages belts into kits that fit our cars. since i dont need a kit, most of the pieces and a lot of money would be wasted. so ive found a few options that are still made in the USA.

what im trying to decide on right now is which buckle im going to choose. i originally wanted a more modern buckle, but after looking at all of the website pics im now leaning towards the chrome "lift latch" style. i would brush the chrome to fit the rest of the car. the problem is that all of the vendors seem to sell the same set, and im not a fan of the male portion of the buckle (see pic). i would either need to fab us some kind of cover, or find a manufacture that has one already done. there is one other choice that is more modern and all black.

what do you guys think?

here is the non retractable version that shows a good pic of the latch. i dont really like the male end. it just seems as if something is missing.


here is one with a cover. not what im looking for, but im not sure why there isnt a cover on the lift latch.


here is what i would consider a more modern latch. it may have the red "push" button that im not a fan of though.

[LanceL]

Can I ask a question and if it was stated and I missed it I am sorry. Are you tig or mig welding or both most of the stuff? Also where did you learn how to do all this fabricating and welding with your great skill? Trial and error, work for someone and learn from them etc.? Taking tig and mig welding classes to do a project like this and just need to know if I might be over my head? Pm me if you don't want to answer in this thread? Thanks

Lance

[The WidowMaker]

Are you tig or mig welding or both most of the stuff? Also where did you learn how to do all this fabricating and welding with your great skill? Trial and error, work for someone and learn from them etc.? Taking tig and mig welding classes to do a project like this and just need to know if I might be over my head?

i have mig welded everything but the exhaust. once this car is finished i am going to spend some time learning how to tig weld. i just dont have the time now, and most of the welding was done before i got my tig anyways.

as far as learning, ive been learning as i go. there are tons of hours of welding in this car, and everything i do makes my welding a little better. i have a long ways to go, but its a start.

ive thought i was in over my head numerous times, and it always gets me discouraged. if it wasnt for forums like this i would have lost my motivation and sold the project a long time ago.

[The WidowMaker]

well, im still searching for seat belts. from what ive found the main manufacture that everybody else sells is beams in oklahoma. they claim to be made 100% in the USA and hopefully that ends up being true. there do appear to be two different retractors though. one has some "knobs" on either end and the other is smooth. theres a picture of each earlier in the thread. i know for a fact that beams makes the knob version, but i was told today by a reseller that their smooth version is made in oklahoma as well. not sure if its beams or not. this seems to be the same retractor that morris uses as well.

im still havent made up my mind on the buckle. i thought i narrowed it down, but it appears that any style female end can be purchased with a locking style male end. not that i think my mounting won't work, but if for some freak reason something happened with my shoulder harness, i would still at least have a lap belt.

i also struggled with the decision of lap or 3 pts in the rear. the plan is to attempt them with 3 points that mount the retractor below the rear deck. i will need to reinforce the deck and the mounting point for the retractor. since the belt will be traveling up through the sheetmetal, i will need to make something to redirect the belt that wont shear it when force is applied. since the factory has been using 1/4" d-rings, my thought is anything with a radius will work. the plan is to either mount some delrin or aluminum that has a radiused slot. if anybody knows of something already out there, im all ears. ive also been concerned with the angle of the slot. when the belt gets pulled out, it doesnt get pulled straight forward. rather, it gets pulled across the body. im thinking this slot will have to be aimed in the direction of the pull. not a huge deal, just more on my mind. ive also thought about putting some bearings on it and making it swivel. this would allow it to retract and extend correctly and my wifes car has something similar on the B post. i havent thought a lot about how i would make it though.

other than that, progress is still going on with the sheetmetal. im also hoping to pick up my door handles from ring brothers in the next couple days. staci is supposed to be setting up a group purchase and as those that have been following know, im a sucker for a deal.....

[dusterbd13]

i know that with most of my vehicles, they used a shouldered bolt to hold the pivot. no bearings or anything of the sort.

id reinforce the package tray and triangulati it if need be, build a pivitong mount for the pivot, and call it a day.

do you by any chance have a number for the manufacturer in OK? id love to see if they are the same folks that make the XV belts, and if so order direct from them since XV is impossible top get ahold of.

Michael

[gearbanger]

I would use Morris Classic Concepts belts. I used them in mine and they are very nice. The retractor part doesn't look as clean as factory but it still looks fine. And everything is very high quality and clean.

[The WidowMaker]

i know that with most of my vehicles, they used a shouldered bolt to hold the pivot. no bearings or anything of the sort.

the only thing that came to mind prior to your post was a d-ring with a shoulder bolt, but since its going to be sitting flat on the package tray it wouldnt work. your suggestion gives me a couple ideas though.

do you by any chance have a number for the manufacturer in OK?

Beam's Seatbelts • 405.793.0505 • 6420 S. Air Depot, Oklahoma City, OK 73135

I would use Morris Classic Concepts belts. I used them in mine and they are very nice. The retractor part doesn't look as clean as factory but it still looks fine. And everything is very high quality and clean.

billy's setup is really nice, but he uses somebodys belts and includes all the mounting brackets. since im not mounting the way his are set up, i would be paying about $70 a belt more. otherwise, the decision would have been already made and my mind could rest for once.

also, i havent seen one up close so pictures may be misleading, but i still cant believe that the lap belt is mounted like that on the outsides. im not saying that it doesnt work or is anything other than already over-engineered, but it seems like the mounting tab should be in the same direction of the belt, not 3-4" long and perpendicular. it would also better provide for the 60-80* angle off your pelvis that is recommeded. the rule of thumb i have found says that with the seat in the rear most position, you want the mounting point of the lap belt at the fold in the seat. a few other bolt in kits are the same way, so it seems to be more than acceptable.

[gearbanger]

my apologies to you and Mr. Morris. I didn;t even realize that the lap belt is mounted to a bracket that swivels I had not even adjusted it properly before shooting those pics. Also check out the lanyard and the attachment at the top into factory holes. Very clean.

[The WidowMaker]

my apologies to you and Mr. Morris. I didn;t even realize that the lap belt is mounted to a bracket that swivels I had not even adjusted it properly before shooting those pics. Also check out the lanyard and the attachment at the top into factory holes. Very clean.

thanks for posting a follow up. i didnt know that the bracket swiveled. that solves the issue that i was seeing.

i think that the installation is VERY clean. im just not a fan of the belts hanging down without a B post. if i didnt already have everything torn up i would just be installing the morris kit.

also, i checked out my silverado this morning and may have come up with a solution. the truck has the belt mounted in the seat, but the swivel for the shoulder belt is not actually a swivel. its more of a quarter circle that allows the belt to slide and adjust to the angle. i may try and do something similar for the rear deck. i think it would look clean and still be very functional.

[The WidowMaker]

well im way behind on my sheetmetal work. i wanted to be done by now, and that was worst case scenario. im still on the drivers side. its going to be middle june before im done, and its looking like novemeber at the earliest for paint.

i did pick up my door handles from ring brothers. they are currently having a group purchase with 10% off and free shipping. call staci if you want parts!!!

[racedaddy]

well, im still searching for seat belts. from what ive found the main manufacture that everybody else sells is beams in oklahoma. they claim to be made 100% in the USA and hopefully that ends up being true. there do appear to be two different retractors though. one has some "knobs" on either end and the other is smooth. theres a picture of each earlier in the thread. i know for a fact that beams makes the knob version, but i was told today by a reseller that their smooth version is made in oklahoma as well. not sure if its beams or not. this seems to be the same retractor that morris uses as well.

im still havent made up my mind on the buckle. i thought i narrowed it down, but it appears that any style female end can be purchased with a locking style male end. not that i think my mounting won't work, but if for some freak reason something happened with my shoulder harness, i would still at least have a lap belt.

i also struggled with the decision of lap or 3 pts in the rear. the plan is to attempt them with 3 points that mount the retractor below the rear deck. i will need to reinforce the deck and the mounting point for the retractor. since the belt will be traveling up through the sheetmetal, i will need to make something to redirect the belt that wont shear it when force is applied. since the factory has been using 1/4" d-rings, my thought is anything with a radius will work. the plan is to either mount some delrin or aluminum that has a radiused slot. if anybody knows of something already out there, im all ears. ive also been concerned with the angle of the slot. when the belt gets pulled out, it doesnt get pulled straight forward. rather, it gets pulled across the body. im thinking this slot will have to be aimed in the direction of the pull. not a huge deal, just more on my mind. ive also thought about putting some bearings on it and making it swivel. this would allow it to retract and extend correctly and my wifes car has something similar on the B post. i havent thought a lot about how i would make it though.

other than that, progress is still going on with the sheetmetal. im also hoping to pick up my door handles from ring brothers in the next couple days. staci is supposed to be setting up a group purchase and as those that have been following know, im a sucker for a deal.....

Ask the seat belt manufacturer the origin of the yarn. I worked 7 years for a manufacturer here in the states but the yarn came from Korea mostly because it was so much cheaper.