1970 GTO Version 2.0

[andrewb70]

Being around car projects for a long time I can tell you that every build has a few dirty little secrets. Some have more than a few. My project is no different. When I got the car aligned the most caster that we could get was zero degrees. This might be due to frame sag, or who knows what, but thats how it was. This doesn't hurt the handling, per say, but it makes for a less than idea driving car. Without any caster the steering wheel doesn't snap back to center after making a turn. So you actually have to steer it out of a corner. Not the most ideal situation. So I called Mark at SC&C and he convinced me that his adjustable upper control arms are the way to go. I was going to get them at some point later because I want to swap to the AFX spindles, but not seemed like the perfect time.



The SPC control arms will allow me to dial in more caster while not increasing negative camber, and they will work with the AFX spindles.







When taking everything apart I noticed that my QA1 shocks were leaking and pretty much not working. This is most likely due to the fact that the car sat for a long time. So a new set is on the way and will be here tomorrow. I will send the old ones to get rebuilt and it will be good to have a spare set, just in case.

I am in a bit of a rush because I want to take the car on a road trip to Chicago on Saturday...

Andrew

[compos mentis]

I'm glad you found out about the leaky shocks.

Looking forward to hearing how the control arms work.

[cdoggy81]

Love the GOAT!!! I too have a thing for Pontiacs

What spring # did you go with for your fronts???

[andrewb70]

.....

What spring # did you go with for your fronts???

The coilover kit that I had with the big block had 550 lb/in springs. The kit that I got now will come with 450 lb/in springs. I am going to use the 450s and if that seems too soft, I will switch back to the 550s.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Yesterday I got the new coilover kit and finished installing the control arms. I used the springs that came with the kit, which were 450 lb/in. In retrospect I should have stuck with the 550s. Oh well.

Here is the final ride height. It's pretty low, probably too low, but it look really good. I am leaving it for now.





This morning I got the car aligned. The show here in town dabbles in circle track racing so they have a very nice Hunter laser alignment rack. We aligned the car with me in it with the following final specs:

Left -.5 camber +5.5 caster
Right -.5 camber +6.0 caster

zero toe

Now here is the cool part. The initial alignment was done with the control arm cross shafts right up against the frame. So with the street alignment settings in place, we did a second alignment using shims. With the shims in place I now have an auto cross alignment with the following specs:

Left -1.5 camber +6.0 caster
Right -1.5 camber +6.5 caster

slight toe out

So now when I got to an event I can take a wrench and in about 5 minutes install my shims for a more aggressive alignment. When I am done, just take them out and drive home on the street alignment.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Looks very good! Congrats

[trapin]

So is that it? You done?

When you get a chance shoot some pics with the SLR of the engine cabin and stance so we can do some proper drolling. LOL!!!

I think the stance looks mean, Andrew. If if the tires rub a little it's OK. Mark Stielow once told me, "It ain't a hot rod if the tires don't rub."

[6'9"Witha69]

Looks good Andrew.

When you say the 550s would have been better, in ride, handling or both?

[Ron S]

I do love that car.That year and the 65 are the prettiest Poncho's ever built in my opinion.Keep up the good work.Ron

[andrewb70]

Thanks guys! I love that quote Tony. Not it's officially a hot rod, since the tires do rub just a little when going into driveways and such.

Nick, the 550s would have been better because they would have been easier to install. With the QA1 coilover kit a certain level of pre-load is needed in the spring. So when you install it, you have to crank on the collar to compress the spring. Using the 550s would have required less pre-load to achieve the same ride height. The extra rate doesn't really hurt the ride at all. As a matter of fact, its hard to tell a difference between the 450s and the 550s in normal street driving. The handling feels very neutral. When taking tight 90 degree turns the back end swings around nicely.

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Thanks for the info Andrew! I'm not trying to kill it on the road I just want it to ride nice & have the PT look + a little better performance but without bottoming out or riding like a stage coach... I would give up a bit of performance for a little better ride. I know most of the ride quality comes from the rear & I already have a Hotchkis Rear Leaf Spring kit (has a 1.5" drop & a little stiffer springs).


With my 1970 Trans Am I'm stuck between 350# (QA1 recommended), 450# (member recommended) & 550# (DSE recommended) springs for the front. The problem I'm running into is with the QA1 setup & the lighter LS1 I now have up front. Also, people have said when you adj. the QA1 down to drop the car more you loose a lot of travel & it bottoms easy. Something I want to avoid! One member recommended the Speedway 91645552 hidden spring shim to help this.

Here is what I'm planning on going with so LMK what you think:

QA1 GMP3450-3 450# front coil overs w/ 12 way adj. shocks
QA1 TC2109P rear 12 way adj. shocks

I currently also have:
DSE-030102 Tubular Upper Arm Kit - 70-81
DSE-010201 Body Mounts- 1/2" Drop (this will also help out)
DSE-031402 FRONT SWAY BAR 1-3/8" HOLLOW 70-81
DSE-010103 SUBFRAME CONNECTORS 1970- 1981
To save $ I stayed with the stock lower arms but went with GW Del-Alum bushings.
Hotchkis Rear Leaf Spring kit

I did talk to Frank & he recommended the old way...
Hotchkis 500# standard coil springs
Hotchkis f shocks
Hotchkis r shocks
2" Drop spindles

Not real sure about this + the added $$$... What are your thoughts on all this?

[andrewb70]

If I had to do it all over again, I would get lower control arms that have spring pockets. I am not so enamored with the QA1 coilover kit. There are some pretty neat solutions out there now that allow you to shim the spring to get your height and corner weights just right. Coilover sound great on paper, because you think "wow, I can change the ride height anytime I want." The truth is that once you have adjusted the ride height, your never going to change it. So keep it simple.

As for spring rates, don't be afraid of 550s. Ride quality is as much a function of shocks as it is springs.

You should buy my spindles and brakes!

Andrew

[andrewb70]

So is that it? You done?

When you get a chance shoot some pics with the SLR of the engine cabin and stance so we can do some proper drolling. LOL!!!

I think the stance looks mean, Andrew. If if the tires rub a little it's OK. Mark Stielow once told me, "It ain't a hot rod if the tires don't rub."

Tony,

Here is sort of a stance shot.



Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Great info & write up. Thanks Andrew & NICE ride man!!!

I found a nice shell & almost did a 1969 GTO myself with my 2004 GTO. I think it would have been a cool ride. It would have been black & looked something like this with the new red GTO interior & the lowered PT look on the outside (just like yours). Couldn't do it though... just love the look of the 70 Pontiac's!!!!

[trapin]

Ahh yes. That's more like it.

GaTagO lives again.

[67SSDan]

That thing is sweet man... I don't think it's too low at all. Looks perfect to me. Since it's finished, I'm assuming you're actually doing to bring it to RTTH this year??

Dan

[andrewb70]

That thing is sweet man... I don't think it's too low at all. Looks perfect to me. Since it's finished, I'm assuming you're actually doing to bring it to RTTH this year??

Dan

I'm definitely going to bring it to RTTH!

Andrew

[67SSDan]

I'm definitely going to bring it to RTTH!

Andrew

Sweet!

Dan

[andrewb70]

On Saturday morning I headed out towards Chicago. My journey started out on a beautiful, sunny morning. The temperature in Bowling Green was in the low 70s at 7:30am and it looked like the perfect day for a road trip. I was making good time but that quickly changed when I got to about 50 miles south of Indianapolis. The forecast called for thunderstorms but I had no idea what as about to hit. Keep in mind that up until this point my car has never been driven in the rain.



Notice the large hole in my hood, later to be filled again by my shaker. i really wasn't worried about the engine getting wet, because I have hosed down the LS6 in my RX7 many times and it has never complained. All of the connectors are water tight so a little water on the intake won't hurt.

In this next picture the rain line can actually be seen. See how the pavement in front of me is dry, but just up ahead the semi going in the other direction has the giant rooster tail of water behind it. The sky was about to open up on me.



The rain was unbelievable. With the wind gusting, it was actually raining sideways.



Then as if it wasn't raining hard enough, it started coming down in sheets.



More dirty little secrets about my car. It seems that it is not entirely water tight. After about 20 minutes of driving in the rain I noticed that both the driver's and passenger side carpet was soaking wet. I am not talking about just damp, but sopping wet. I suspected that the water was coming down the cowl and getting inside through the kick panel area. A few days ago I discovered that to be exactly the case. No names will get mentioned, but the passenger side cowl vent panel was installed by the same shop that installed my Vintage Air system. The panel where the hoses come through wasn't sealed against the body at all. Like I said before, the reputation of the shop doesn't mean s**t. It all boils down to that guy, making 15 bucks an hour, wrenching on the car.

In about a week I am going to drive the car from Chicago to Colorado for my (cough....cough...) 20th high school reunion.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Andrew,

What brought you up to Chicago? Do you know when you will have your car tuned?

Matt