My 68 Cougar Pro-Touring / Resto-Mod Project

[andrewb70]

How about the II Much vent?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Another thought that I had is to run the vent to the front of the car and incorporating a stock style charcoal canister. You can then purge the canister directly into the intake manifold using a stock style purge solenoid. The Dominator has many programable outputs, so you can easily control the purge solenoid in a fashion similar to OEM. I don't know exactly what that strategy is, but I assume that the purge solenoid opens at high vacuum conditions. I believe you can also configure the output to be timed. So for instance, you start the engine cold, the purge solenoid opens for 3 seconds (or whatever). Consequently, it does this repeatedly when the engine drops below a specified kPa threshold.

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

Did the cougars have a factory "stand pipe" behind the back seat like the early 70s F-bodies?

Many Camaro/Firebird guys vent their tanks to the standpipe and then vent the standpipe to open air (red arrow) or through a later factory GM/Rochester vent.

The other option as Andrew mentioned would be to mount a II Much vent in the same location... or an S10 vent tucked up somewhere?

I've also noticed that DSE is using older factory BMW (1180463 TB 988/3) vent canisters in their builds.

[andrewb70]

The Cougars (at least in 67 and 68) didn't have any fancy venting.

Do you have any more information on that BMW part?

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

Andrew,

It's BMW part number 1180463 TB 988/3... you will find it on several of Detroit Speeds recent builds. Maybe they have it in stock for resale? idk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7701326607175/

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

It's BMW part number 1180463 TB 988/3... you will find it on several of Detroit Speeds recent builds. Maybe they have it in stock for resale? idk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7701326607175/

Any details as to how it is plumbed? Do they run it back to the engine or just vent to atmosphere?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Looks like BMW has some sort of tank mounted above the gas tank, then a line goes to the charcoal canister.

Another diagram showed said canister being purged into the intake via a purge solenoid.



Looks like it is nearly $300 new...not happening on my junk.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

The stand pipe idea is interesting. Something similar can be easily made and vented down through the trunk floor.

Andrew

[langleylad]

How about the II Much vent?

Andrew

Definitely the way to go but $279 US turns into $400 CDN just to vent a fuel tank ...Ouch !

[langleylad]

Another thought that I had is to run the vent to the front of the car and incorporating a stock style charcoal canister. You can then purge the canister directly into the intake manifold using a stock style purge solenoid. The Dominator has many programable outputs, so you can easily control the purge solenoid in a fashion similar to OEM. I don't know exactly what that strategy is, but I assume that the purge solenoid opens at high vacuum conditions. I believe you can also configure the output to be timed. So for instance, you start the engine cold, the purge solenoid opens for 3 seconds (or whatever). Consequently, it does this repeatedly when the engine drops below a specified kPa threshold.

Andrew

Now this method just confuses the hell out of me ! Like I said before , your one clever fella , lol

[andrewb70]

Now this method just confuses the hell out of me ! Like I said before , your one clever fella , lol

It's not rocket surgery, I promise. You know how the Dominator turns the cooling fans on at a set temperature? It is exactly like that. You just create another output and program it. I have also been doing some reading on these systems and how they work and it seems that the purge solenoid should purge not at idle. This would be easy to accomplish. If you go down this road, I can definitely help with the programming.

I see no reason why I can't make my own charcoal canister to suit the space where I want to install it. I was even thinking about using PVC pipe...but I am open to suggestions. From what I can tell the charcoal inside them is basically the same as the activated charcoal that is used in bigger fish filters.

[langleylad]

It's not rocket surgery, I promise. You know how the Dominator turns the cooling fans on at a set temperature? It is exactly like that. You just create another output and program it. I have also been doing some reading on these systems and how they work and it seems that the purge solenoid should purge not at idle. This would be easy to accomplish. If you go down this road, I can definitely help with the programming.

I see no reason why I can't make my own charcoal canister to suit the space where I want to install it. I was even thinking about using PVC pipe...but I am open to suggestions. From what I can tell the charcoal inside them is basically the same as the activated charcoal that is used in bigger fish filters.

What confuses me is why you would want to purge into the intake in the first place ? . Is this an emissions type of thing ? where you're burning the fuel vapors ? are you using solenoids so you don't create vacuum at the vent tube ?

I was looking into the BMW canisters and they're not cheap either .

This all seems so complicated and why would Tanks Inc system be so uncomplicated ?
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...cat/cat160.htm

[langleylad]

This looks like a good replacement for the BMW canister , a lot cheaper too

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Purolator-Ty...UAAOSw8DJaDHeY

[andrewb70]

By purging into the intake you draw fresh air through the bottom of the vapor canister. By doing that the charcoal is "cleaned" of the fuel vapor.

The Tanks way of doing it is simple, but very stinky.



Andrew

[OLDFLM]

On SW's 73 TA it appears DSE vented it to the atmosphere:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

But it also looks like they made their own "stand pipe" to go in the stock location and then vented it to the canister above:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

[langleylad]

By purging into the intake you draw fresh air through the bottom of the vapor canister. By doing that the charcoal is "cleaned" of the fuel vapor.

The Tanks way of doing it is simple, but very stinky.

Andrew

Gotcha , I understand . So if the solenoid way to open in a high vacuum condition the engine wouldn't be affected by the small amount of vacuum lost , is that your thinking ?.

Yes the simple way would be rather stinky .

Thanks for your help Andrew .

- - - Updated - - -

On SW's 73 TA it appears DSE vented it to the atmosphere:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

But it also looks like they made their own "stand pipe" to go in the stock location and then vented it to the canister above:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroi...7692471691771/

Thanks for the info Ty

[sccacuda]

Gotcha , I understand . So if the solenoid way to open in a high vacuum condition the engine wouldn't be affected by the small amount of vacuum lost , is that your thinking ?.

Yes the simple way would be rather stinky .

Thanks for your help Andrew .



- - - Updated - - -



Thanks for the info Ty

It's a lot simpler than that. You purge the canister contents into the engine because, well, it's fuel vapor and readily burns!. When you start purging, two things will happen. The A/F will go rich but the ECU will compensate by reducing fuel (this is your O2's at work). The other is the engine speed will increase when the purge is introduced, but again the ECU will compensate by reducing idle air back to target idle. It's very seamless, and aside from hearing the purge solenoid pulse, almost undetectable.
Most purge happens at no load idle. You can set up a simple purge scenario in the ECU to purge at idle, temp above 160, for X amount of time at X pulse width.

[andrewb70]

Just to bring this back around....Yesterday I vent to the local hydraulic hose store and got a length of Parker nylon hose (this is probably overkill). There was an existing hole in the trunk along the rail that supports the gas tank. I used a step drill to enlarge it to the O.D. of the nylon hose. I ran the hose from the vent, forward to under the package tray, then a gentle sweep up. There are some cavities just at the forward edge of the trunk that are formed by the exterior sheet metal and the interior support structure. I looped the hose through those cavities, then ran the hose down and out of the trunk through the hole.

I went for a drive and there was definitely a noticeable difference. The real test will come when I drive the car next time after it had been sitting over night or even for a day or two. I suspect I will be pleased.

A couple of notes in general to keep in mind. Let's not forget that the vent serves two functions:

1) when the vehicle is being driven and the fuel level is dropping, fresh air is drawn into the vent to displace the gas that is being used. The corollary to that is when the tank is being filled up, the vent gives air in the tank an easy escape path. So as the gas level goes up, air is being easily displaced. Air can also escape from the filler neck, but that can sometimes cause "burps" and gas spills.

2) When the vehicle is not being used, gasoline vaporizes and it needs a place to go. Gasoline vapors are lighter than air, so they will "float" up. Modern vehicles use elaborate EVAP systems to capture, store, then burn off the vapors. The evaporation canisters (charcoal canisters) are used to store the vapors and then various schemes are used to allow the stored vapors to be burned off in the engine. Old systems used a combination of pressure valves, while modern systems use purge solenoids that are controlled by the engine ECU.

For our purposes, we need to decide how simple or complicated we want to make this system and what goals we want to achieve. In the end, I didn't want to add a vapor canister and deal with adding wires and the plumbing a purge solenoid. So the way I did my vent hose allows both of the above scenarios to be accounted for without extra components. A more elaborate solution would be to use or make something like the IIMuch vent. Essentially it is a vapor storage container. The ultimate solution is installing a more modern system with purge solenoids, etc...

Geez....who knew this was so complicated!

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

Sheesh... so you literally just put a loop in your vent line and ran it high above the gas tank? A much simpler solution than my factory GM "stand pipe"!

I'm sure it will work Andrew! In my searches last night also found this simple solution that it sounds like you basically just replicated with the nylon hose:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Fu...d=183463296123

[andrewb70]

Sheesh... so you literally just put a loop in your vent line and ran it high above the gas tank? A much simpler solution than my factory GM "stand pipe"!

I'm sure it will work Andrew! In my searches last night also found this simple solution that it sounds like you basically just replicated with the nylon hose:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Fu...d=183463296123

My solution is not pretty. Keep in mind that on many Fords, the top of the tank is also the floor of the trunk. So my vent line is exposed and quite visible in the trunk. But yes, my hose is about 8 feet long, so it is a huge loop and the top of the loop is higher than the filler neck.

If someone wanted to make it pretty (like for this build), they can bend a hard line that runs forward from the vent tube to the back of the rear seat, go up to the top (just under the package tray), then loop back down and come through the floor sheet metal, and out just ahead of the rear axle. This would essentially be exactly like the Buick loop that you posted. The stand pipe used on other GM models is essentially a fancier version of the Buick loop.

Andrew