'66 Pontiac Resto-Mod Update

[wmhjr]

Hi Jim,

I've made some progress - slowly but surely. I'm swapping the PS Box (exisiting 800 box built by Power Steering Services) for a Lee 670 box. The 800 box is really brand new and is quick ratio but I'm looking for an even more sensitive feel. I'll be selling the 800 box. There is nothing wrong with it. I'll also be using all -6AN lines/fittings to rid myself of the old stuff. The reservoir was another issue. I wanted AN on both sides, and the "stock type" reservoir has a tube brazed on it for the return line (low pressure). To simplify I decided to use the March reservoir, which has an NPT threaded low pressure port. Quite possibly that will go on this weekend. The broken cap I've been able to retrieve and there were some plastic pieces in the reservoir, but apparently nowhere else.

I also installed a Lokar parking brake handle though I have not yet connected and installed the cables. May do that this weekend as well. I have planned out how they will be installed.

I dropped the car off Tues evening to have the convertible top installed on the frame. I'm also having the steering wheel wrap replaced with a dark burgundy/red rather than the black that's on there. The black just doesn't look quite right. Should have the car back before the weekend.

I am also having some slight tuning issues with the motor. It's not idling correctly, and low RPM performance is not where I want it. Fortunately, I chose to get a carb built by Jeff Esmel and he has been invaluable. It's possible that when I changed the intake gaskets I may have ended up with a small intake leak, so I need to check that this weekend.

Had the car out a bit this past weekend. Things are going well. All in all, the car is driving quite well and I'm very happy. Trying to get ready for Columbus!

[SamHatco]

I'm swapping the PS Box (exisiting 800 box built by Power Steering Services) for a Lee 670 box.

Your gonna really like that box. Very high quality. I put one on my firebird and it really woke up the suspension. Great feel and feedback. Car turns on a dime just like a new ZR1 vette.



Sam

[Jim Nilsen]

It sounds like you are closing in on the little things.

I remember buying a fitting from DSE for the PS hose connection that I didn't know if I would need it or not when I got my wiper motor. I had all the hoses from the one I got on ebay but they didn't look that good and were not exactly the right length. I was able to utilize that fitting for my -6 an lines and was glad I spent the $14 for a fitting I didn't know if I needed it or not. It seems that it is the smallest of parts that make the biggest of diffence in what is able to work and what is to fail in some way or another.

Good thing you have a good carb guy, I don't think I could talk you into EZ EFI after what I have been through,lol. Tuning the EFI is nice and easy from a laptop if you know what you are doing but a carb is more forgiving at times. Hope you get it dialed in on the next try so you can move on to the other stuff.

I hope the guy gets your top on and it looks just like you want it to look with no wrinkles.

Summer is almost officially here and it sounds like you are going to make it to be able to enjoy it all.

[wmhjr]

Well, it's been a little while. Daughter graduated HS, grad party at the house, inlaws visiting for a week, all kinds of examples of life getting in the way.

Good Guys is a little over a week away. Got to have the car in loaded in the trailer a week from today. Here's what has been done lately....

Convertible top is on the car. Turned out pretty good. Everything works. The dang hydraulic pump sure sucks down some amps, though. Already killed my battery once just getting the top in, aligned, etc. That highlighted another problem...

Realized that with the trunk mounted battery, and the upholstered trunk with the battery hidden, when the battery is low and I need to either charge it, remove it or jump it - whooops! Have to remove an upholstered panel! So, got a set of remote terminals and we're going to modify the right side panel of the trunk upholstery to allow for remote charging and jumping. No big deal. But it would have been. Dumb. An example of focusing on all kinds of details and losing sight of the fundamentals.

Steering wheel is redone with kind of maroon wrap. Looks much better.

Installed sensor bungs on the X-Pipe. Going to use wide band in the future to get the motor really dialed in. Sensor bungs are just behind the header collectors on the X.

Installed the Lee 670 steering box, the March steering pump reservoir, and new -AN steering hoses. It's finally just like I want it. Nice and clean, crisp, and done.

Swapped the intake gaskets and reinstalled the intake, carb spacer and carb. It's better now, but still not quite right. A slight stumble when I jump on the motor at maybe around 2400rpm or so. I've got it good enough for Good Guys, and will spend a lot more time and attention after that. I think a good focus on all around tuning is in order. I'm going to check vacuum, each cylinder pressure, initial timing and start from scratch. Use wideband for adjusting the A/F.

Over the next week, I need to:

Finish some wiring cleanup.
Install some replacement bushings in my visor mounts.
Install the trunk stuff (remote battery terminals)
Get a new shifter boot made - finish installation of shifter from Twist Machine (pics to follow in a few days, maybe)
Clean, polish, clean, polish, - then clean and polish

[Jim Nilsen]

Good to hear you are ready for rain just in case, you don't need to have a bathtub,lol.

I have found the great thing about a car show is, you don't have to be running good to show up. I just got back from our local McDonalds car show that had over 125 cars tonight. There were only a few people who actually knew what a trackday car was all about. I was talking to a guy with a 67 big block Corvette that was pretty rare and he said it was a 150-200k in value and I told him it would surprise him as to what my car was worth. At that moment some kid said my car was worth about 15k and we both just about died laughing, when I told him it was appraised and insured for 65k he told me that you can insure anything for what you want,LOL. Aren't car shows so much fun !!!!

I don't think I will be able to make it out that way and hope you have a really good time and your car does well. I am looking forward to hearing the stories from the crazies you encounter.


Clean and polish,polish and clean and then there is FILL IT UP and DRIVE, I like the driving part the best !!!!!!!

How about some pics of the new top.

What ever you do don't forget some chairs, I have forgotten them everytime I have gone somewhere this year.

[wmhjr]

A quick update since it's been a while. The project continues to fight - kicking and screaming - toward completion.

Power Steering: I've been plagued with leaks in my power steering for a while. I was running a Lee 670 box with -6AN fittings connected to a March Billet Reservoir and a pump rebuilt by Chip at Power Steering Services. I had a new flow control valve from Tom Lee (Great guy!) Brand new NAPA seals between the pump and reservoir. Talked to Tom, who indicated that sometimes the March reservoirs are a little thick preventing the o-ring on the flow control valve from seating in the shoulder. So, figured maybe the units sold by March with both reservoir and pump would have been tested and should not leak. Talked to Summit who said I could return my existing reservoir, so I ordered and got the whole March PS pump w/reservoir. Pressure tested the 2 -6AN braided hoses, bolted everything together, and decided to take the car out to finally calibrate the electric speedo. 4 miles from my house, the PS pump apparently seized. I lost power steering, and fluid blew all over the inside of the engine compartment and a little out on the drivers windshield. Nice. The billet reservoir was baked brown (clearcoat was completely discolored. Got my dad and son to bring my truck and trailer out, loaded the car up and took it home.

Next day (Sunday) I disassembled the PS stuff (again) and spend 2 days cleaning. I called Tom Lee on Monday, and we talked about my options. I sent him my old (built by Chip) pump and the original billet reservoir, and he sent me out some fittings including a nifty one he made that goes on the return tube from a stock reservoir converting it to -6AN. I picked up a relatively inexpensive stock type pump/reservoir, and when I got the fittings from Tom I cut off the little nub on the end of that tube and tried to put the fitting on that Tom made. Guess what? The reservoir had a significantly smaller outside diameter return tube, and the fitting wouldn't work. Found ANOTHER reservoir, measured the tube, and reconfigured everything, finally getting it all installed. No leaks, but for a while the 670 box had a much higher effort turning left than turning right. Tom suggested trying to "work it out a little" and after a day, it smoothed out. He things something from the seized pump got in the box, and it finally worked its way out. At the end of the season I'm pulling the 670 box and sending it back to Tom to have it checked.

Anyway, don't have my "final" pump and reservoir back yet, but I do have good steering again. Took the car out Fri, Sat and Sunday to just drive it a bit and work some kinks out. The engine still isn't tuned correctly. Still stumbling a little sometimes, and every once in a while it's spitting through the carb. Also, it's getting a bit warm. I'm going to have to spend some serious time trying to work the bugs out of the carb/timing - not happy with where it's at. I think I need to sort that out before focusing on the cooling as the temp issues could be a byproduct of the motor not being dialed in yet.

Got stuck in the rain a little yesterday, so I drove with the top up for the first time. The top is fine, but it's noisy!

All in all still some bugs but things continue to improve. Handling is excellent. The car is incredibly sticky and responsive in the bends. Had it on the highway a little, and it pulls hard and handles great. Extremely stable and very easy to drive. The TKO600 tied to the motor and 3.73 gears make it quick but comfortable. Need to finalize a few things yet, but the issues are relatively minor and can be solved with a little effort.

[jocko124]

Bill,

what's the date stamped on your Lee 670? I just got mine and it's stamped Lee MFG. 10/5/7. Is that the original manufacturing date?

[jocko124]

never mind...called them....it's the manufacturing date: July 5, 2010.

[Motown 454]

Boy what a process to get it done. I'm glad you finally worked out the bugs. I was thinking of getting a lee box ,like you the one I have is all rebuilt . Its a factory quick ratio. It sounds like it will be worth it to change.

[Jim Nilsen]

It's good to hear your keeping your head up with the problems your having. I totally lucked out with my PS setup I got off ebay, I expected to have problems but it is still doing good. I recall cleaning up aftr blowing the engine and the shine from the oil on my frame probably gives it all a little extra rust protection it didn't need.lol.

I was having the same kind of drivability problems you are having and just got rid of most of it by bringing the timing up 5 degrees and richening up the fuel near the idle and low end. I had a lean pop and that damn jerking. Yours is a bit more work to do with a carb but that is where I would start to see if it can get better.

Sounds like you got to test the top for leaks. I get caught in the rain all the time because I want to go to the car shows during the week and see people and hope to run into some guys I used to work with who I know show up once in awhile. If you never get caught in the rain you never know where the leaks are until you have a floor full in a torrential rain storm.

I hope you get the PS stuff all worked out and figure out what the problem was. It's good to know you are getting to enjoy it in spite of it all. The problems will fade into the back of your memory soon and the thoughts of something going wrong next will too.

There is still plenty of the season to get it all worked out and when winter gets here you can detail the whole thing for spring instead of having to work out mechanical problems.

I sure wish I could have made it to the Good Guy's event to meet you and see the car.

Keep at it and it will come together and stay that way!!

[wmhjr]

Well......

Spent this past weekend in Norwalk at Pontiac Nationals. In a way, it as completion of part of a journey. 2 yrs ago I went there for the 1st time just as I was starting my project. At that time, the car looked like:



2 yrs later and the car looked like:



Won my class (it's really more of a "restoration" kind of crowd, so I was in the "Custom 1909-1969" category). Wasn't expecting that since the judges spent all of about 2 minutes near my car. Had a good time, though. A couple of other PT cars were there. Code Red was there, and it looked great as it did at GG Columbus. On Sunday a REAL nice black '68 PT GTO was there but I never was able to find the owner.

Still having a couple issues. First, friggin PS is STILL leaking. Got the pump/reservoir back from Lee along with the braided lines I had sent them. Unfortunately, it appears as though they did not test the lines as I had requested. While the lines had previously been tested to 1500lbs, I had a bad leak on the pressure side right at the box. I've never in my life had so much trouble getting rid of a single friggin leak!

The motor is also running rough. Spitting through the carb, lots of soot in the carb, diesels and backfires at shutdown sometimes. This weekend I plan to do a bunch of things. I'm going to test compression in each cylinder (though I expect to find nothing there). I'm checking vacuum. Pull the dist cap and rotor to make sure nothing wrong in there.

I also ordered (will arrive today) an Innovate LM2 dual wideband setup. I had already welded bungs in the front of my x-pipe on both sides so this weekend I plan to get the wiring in for that.

Also, by mid next week I'll have another carb to test with. A friend is building another motor, so we ordered a Pro-Systems carb from Jason Patrick. I'm then going to spend some real quality time with the motor. I'll probably send the original carb back to Jeff (carb builder) when I pull it so that he can go over it to insure nothing has happened to it. It'll also be nice to have 2 carbs both setup for this motor (at least for a while) along with the ability to log A/F wideband data.

[prostreet69camaro]

It turned our very nice,,congratulations

[Jim Nilsen]

Congratulations on the class win

The judges must have really noticed all the detail and great paint and put you at the top of the list. The show I went to last sunday had no judges and the car owners didn't spend much time looking and just seemed to vote for friends and since I have never been to very many shows I don't have many car show friends yet.

I hope you get the carb straightened out and maybe with the wideband you will get better answers as to what to do. When I put the wideband in it sure made tuning the efi a lot easier so it should definately help with the carb. Having 2 of them is a sweet deal to progressively get better and still be able to drive.

I am looking forward to the day you are happy with everything and can forget the problems of today. I thought I would never get over the misery of mine and now they are waning in the past as each drive is giving some pleasure.

I'm keepin the faith it will be all good soon

[wmhjr]

Well, got the LM2 Dual Wideband stuff in. I hardwired power to the car, connected and configured the tach input via analog to my 6AL2, and ran the circuits to the sensors. At first boot I had an error on one of the sensors but it turned out that I just didn't have it firmly plugged in. The install was very easy - thanks to the bulkhead passthrough setup I installed during the build. I was able to feed the sensor wires from under the car up through the passenger fender, through the cowl in 2 places and into the glove box area. Sensors calibarted to 20.8 and 20.9, so they're pretty much right on. Now I can log data all day long. The LM2 sits in my glovebox all connected all the time, and can log data to a 2GB SD card. Right now I'm just capturing rpm and 2 A/F sensors. I've thought about adding engine temp, vacuum and fuel pressure, but I need to get familiar with the system first. For temp you can't use a normal resistance type temp sending unit, you have to use a thermocouple type unit. Not sure about the other stuff.

Had a dumb problem trying to do a compression test. My gauge has fittings that won't fit in my heads. The KRE Aluminum hads have plug holes recessed, and there isn't enough room to grab the fitting to tighten it. I'll deal with that this weekend.

This weekend we're taking my daughter to college for move-in (Thurs/Fri AM). It's not far from my engine builder so I'm dragging my trailer and car and we're going to spend Fri afternoon and Sat tuning. I'll have 2 carbs, plugs, intake gaskets, a different valley pan (we may be getting some oil through the PCV due to the valley pan design), jets, and the wideband. I also changed the oil, so we should be good to go. Loading up tonight and leaving for the 4hr drive in the AM.

[gearbanger]

I have never been able to use the valley pan for PCV. It has always pulled oil. I use a PCV valve in one valve cover and a breather with a 1/2" vent tube in the other cover with a clear tube going to the bottom of the air filter base. The tube and breather in the other cover was the solution to oil blowing out the breather during quarter mile passes and long top speed runs when you are at WOT for long periods. I haven't had any trouble at all since I installed that.

You will lonve the LM2 stuff. You will really learn alot about how a carb works if you get in there and dial in your whole setup. Innovate has a great tech forum for info when you start tuning.

[Blue67gto]

Really beautiful car! love the color.

[wmhjr]

I have never been able to use the valley pan for PCV. It has always pulled oil. I use a PCV valve in one valve cover and a breather with a 1/2" vent tube in the other cover with a clear tube going to the bottom of the air filter base. The tube and breather in the other cover was the solution to oil blowing out the breather during quarter mile passes and long top speed runs when you are at WOT for long periods. I haven't had any trouble at all since I installed that.

You will lonve the LM2 stuff. You will really learn alot about how a carb works if you get in there and dial in your whole setup. Innovate has a great tech forum for info when you start tuning.

I'm enjoying the LM2, though I think the innovate tech forums are down. They've had a message where the forums used to be saying they're redoing them - but that same message has been there for quite a while.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the valley pan. I do have a Tomahawk pan that Ace out at PPR says will work with the PCV but I haven't swapped it yet.

[wmhjr]

Well, had a good trip and got a bunch of stuff done. My youngest is now at College and moved in. Classes actually start today.

As for the car, I feel pretty darned stupid. I got to the engine guy early on Fri afternoon. Now, I should also mention that the running conditions had been deteriorating over time. I really had checked timing at one point and was pretty convinced it was A/F related. Just goes to show to never overlook the fundamentals even after a problem started.

Somehow - timing had gotten WAY off. And I mean REALLY off. Couldn't even see the timing mark at the start. Then, noticed that the vacuum plug (the big a$$ one, 1/2") that I KNOW I had plugged even the last time the carb went on - was missing. Apparently one of the relatively recent backfires blew it off like a bottle rocket. So, cleaned things up a bit, retimed, replaced the friggin cap, and all of the sudden the motor is running well. Took it for a test drive, and it ran well, pulled hard, and ran cool. Friday was in the 80s with humidity, and even when really working the motor the engine temp stayed at or just below 180.

I'm still not sure that the carb that Jeff built was not damaged after all the ordeals, and I did have the Pro-Systems carb to try -so we then simply replaced the carb, adjusted fuel pressure, set the floats, and took it for another test drive. Now remember that the original carb ran well on the dyno, and is probably all gunked up right now and has had backfires through it at least 30 times. The new carb is also a little bigger - it's a full 1000cfm. Anyway, the car pulled like a freight train. Probably slightly less well behaved at just off idle, but then it revs REAL fast and just doesn't let off. Before we could blink it was through 5500. The NT05s are sticky, but not nearly sticky enough to hold the torque through 3rd if you hammer it. Again, still ran very cool and well mannered. Have not messed with jetting or anything yet - collecting a bit more data first. Also need to decide what I'm going to do about PCV/valley pan. The original carb (which is a very good carb) I sent back to Jeff today for him to go over, since I may have messed something up with it. I also need to learn much more about the LM2 stuff - I'm just scratching the surface right now.

[Motown 454]

Glad to hear you got it figured out.

[wmhjr]

Well, it's been a couple weeks. The car is running beautifully. Ridiculous power, idles clean, nasty lumpy sound, runs cool, etc. Temps never seem to exceed 180 at this point. Often I'm cruising at less than 170. It is SO much fun to drive that it should be illegal.

The Innovate LM2 wideband setup is also working great. I hardwired the power and positioned the control unit in the glove box with my MSD ignition and fuse box. I can reach over, open the box, press the red button, and I'm logging A/F. When I'm done, open up the box, remove the SD card, and I've got all the data on my laptop. GREAT system.

I've been using the Twist Machine 10" bent shifter stick along with the adjustable adapter. In the main, it's a great item. REAL comfortable, easy to hit correct shifts. The adjustment mechanism (this is the steel adapter, not the built in adjustable model) is maybe a little touchy. It can loosen up a little. Steve and Mary (great people) are aware of it - working through some ideas. The shift handle is extremely comfortable - BUT especially in a convertible it can get pretty hot from the sun.

Weather permitting, on the 18th I'm going to Pgh Raceway Park for an event that includes 1/8 mile passes. It's a pretty good track and it should be fun. Hopefully they won't be too rough on me at tech, since I've got a trunk mounted battery with no external switch, and because I've got no cage. Keeping fingers crossed.

Beyond that, I've been putting some miles on the car trying to find all the little bugs. Ran into somebody who hangs out here named Justin with a Blue Chevelle this past weekend - real nice guy. We were both pretty far out in the country - cool coincidence.