American Motors Xperimental full frame

[Mr. Anderson]

Very excited to see another build from you. The wheelbase change is a great idea too.

[dusterbd13]

mmmmmm.......

undersling, full chassis amx. don ron style.

thats just freaking cool.

im definately watching this one.

Michael

[Ron S]

Built this structure to suport the back of the car and the rear bumper, once I stripped the floor this thing was really flimsy in the back. Also cut out the inner rockers, and installed these kind of Z shaped peices, because I've designed this chassis to bolt in, to make installing the cage, and interior easier.

To make it bolt in, I had weld these 68" Z shaped inner rockers that have holes which line up with the frame holes. I had to drill and weld 8 sleeves into the frame on each side. When you set the body down on the frame it is a glove like fit, and the top portion of the Z supports the car, and then you intall 8 bots in each side, and 8 more in the rear. Very time consuming to do it like that, but I'll be very happy I did when it comes time to weld up the cage, and when its done, I'm going to send it out for powder coating, cage and all.The bottom pic is the structure that supports the rear of the car and back bumper .

[Yelcamino]

Very cool. Being able to R&R the body will make future tasks a lot easier!

[Ron S]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

[Mr. Anderson]

that is an insanely huge front tire. wow!

[David Sloan]

Sweet!
Looking good.

[Motorcitydak]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

[Hotwhilz]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

[exwestracer]

My hatred of 9" rears is epic,

LOL...

Looks like an awesome build Ron. Can't wait to see what's in store.

[Ron S]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

The front axle center line got pushed an inch forward the rear six inches back. AMC has the engine place really forward in the car, measuring from the front of he engine, the engine is moved back about 10 inches. Not that I like it, but the Dana rear in the car is stupid heavy, with the Watts link and all the tubing I have planed for the rear of the car, I'll bet its close to 50/50 weight distribution. hell my Mustang is 49 front/ 51 rear.

[Ron S]

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

Its funny I just cut an eyebrow in the frame so the boot wouldn't scrape at full jounce. The frame stub came from Jakes Rod Shop,it is designed to use a Mustang Rack, cut the steering arms off the knuckles, and run bolt on fabricated steering arms(just like Morrison, and DSE). They do this so you can put the engine in the stock location, I knew my engine would be pushed back, so I took a different approach. I went to my parts house, dug through all the rack boxes to find any rack that looked close, took home about 20 racks pulled the boots and started measuring the pivots. When I finally found a rack with the correct width, I had to do the same with the inner tie rods. I used the factory C5 subframe to determine correct rack placement which worked pretty well. I do have a bumpsteer kit for a Corvette, but haven't desided the fine tuning yet.

[1red68]

Love the project Ron, keep it up.
i'm wish-n i was closer so it could be checked out in person..

[BADDRIDE II]

Payton King and I were talking about this today, we figured the best way to correct this would be to take the other set of holes in the dual bolt pattern hub, and install two hardend 5/8" pins in two of the extra holes, tig them from behind. We figure it would be a much tighter fit, and less likely to shear. Just seemed like the rings would be a pain, and easy to loose.

Good idea Ron, better than the machined rings for sure but you may want to install these pins in ALL 5 holes as I would not want all the engine torque just thrusting on 2 points/pins even if they are 5/8"...may as well dispurse amoung 5 as originally designed.

I am curious though as to your choice of Hub Kits (since you have chimed in on GMR Kit threads in the recent past as being "the best") when the focus of this rear was on strength and no maintenence. The Strange D60 talks for itself and is an excellent choice with its standard 35 spline carrier.......but then to transfer it all down to a light-duty hub body and 24 spline driveplate? Kinda like running a forged crank/rods, and then running a cast piston.....just saying.

Either way...cool build!

[Ron S]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

[BADDRIDE II]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

I agree, the 30 spline axles seemed to hold up decent in the old trucks (although most that eventually increased hp or tire size upgraded to 35 spline due to axle failure)......but do not recall any of them ever running 24 spline like you will be? Did any of the Dana's run less than 30 spline.....and wonder why?

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....so when a NASCAR takes off it is probably pushing 300-350 hp max and probably even less torque, thus why we do not see more failures than they already have and why it is not reasonable to say that these hubs/drive plates can handle 750hp.

As for repair/interchangability of parts on a floater hub as you know...is very minimal. Maybe a set of bearings or at worst a drive plate (if you run a 24 spline). Well the GMR hub takes a very standard Timken race/bearing/seal that can be had at any auto parts store (Kragen/Auto Zone/Napa/Pep Boys)......as for the drive plate, if I am not mistaken, Jason originally had a Speedway Engineering (which I do believe is interchangable with Moser/Coleman) 24 spline driveplate on his proto type until he decided to improve with the 35 spline drive plate. So if you really believed in this 24 spline driveplate you could even run them on the GMR hub (although this is bordering a sin).....but as for ever replacing a GMR 35 spline driveplate on one of our cars while driving to the coast......never happen. As for breaking a 35 spline axle on one of our cars....never happen. So I do not know what type of maintenence or replacement part you would need if running GMR.....parts that are designed/machined even better than OE that even go 100's of thousands of miles. Site member Donny (dontlifttoshift) seems to drive all over Gods creation, and tracks his car on his GMR kit and has not been seen on the side of the road stranded.....sounds like Moser's discounted price/sponsorship trumped your better judgement. JMO

Sounds like by the time you are done with your kit, it will not be an on the shelf replacement item by Moser or Coleman.

Well other than your floater hub choice.....it is all good, good luck!

[Ron S]

I love when someone says never happen, it makes me laugh. I have building cars for more then 30 years, and I weigh the pros and cons of every purchase I make. I appreciate that your such an advocate for GMR, hey its a good product, seriously looking at for my Mustang(more of a track car). Dude, have you ever seen the slicks on a Cup car? There is NOTHING I'm going to do with a pro touring car with 200 tread wear tires that will get close to the limits on these parts. Every Dana equipt Hemi car Chrysler built had 23 spline axles, and none of them ever had an issue, most of the early truck stuff was 16 spline,never saw alot of failures with it either. I could spend more, and it would be stronger, liked the bearing spread and the steel hubs on the Moser parts, and like that fact that they are off the shelf parts. Will have to a little time changing what I don't like, hell I modify everything.

[BADDRIDE II]

Fair enough....you do like modifying everything, so these will be a good fit.

[shortrack]

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......



So whats the wheelbase now?

[andrewb70]

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

....

He meant at the driveplate, not at the diff...

Andrew