American Motors Xperimental full frame

[Ron S]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

[Hotwhilz]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

[Ron S]

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

Its funny I just cut an eyebrow in the frame so the boot wouldn't scrape at full jounce. The frame stub came from Jakes Rod Shop,it is designed to use a Mustang Rack, cut the steering arms off the knuckles, and run bolt on fabricated steering arms(just like Morrison, and DSE). They do this so you can put the engine in the stock location, I knew my engine would be pushed back, so I took a different approach. I went to my parts house, dug through all the rack boxes to find any rack that looked close, took home about 20 racks pulled the boots and started measuring the pivots. When I finally found a rack with the correct width, I had to do the same with the inner tie rods. I used the factory C5 subframe to determine correct rack placement which worked pretty well. I do have a bumpsteer kit for a Corvette, but haven't desided the fine tuning yet.

[Mr. Anderson]

that is an insanely huge front tire. wow!

[David Sloan]

Sweet!
Looking good.

[Motorcitydak]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

[Ron S]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

The front axle center line got pushed an inch forward the rear six inches back. AMC has the engine place really forward in the car, measuring from the front of he engine, the engine is moved back about 10 inches. Not that I like it, but the Dana rear in the car is stupid heavy, with the Watts link and all the tubing I have planed for the rear of the car, I'll bet its close to 50/50 weight distribution. hell my Mustang is 49 front/ 51 rear.

[1red68]

Love the project Ron, keep it up.
i'm wish-n i was closer so it could be checked out in person..

[Ron S]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

[BADDRIDE II]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

I agree, the 30 spline axles seemed to hold up decent in the old trucks (although most that eventually increased hp or tire size upgraded to 35 spline due to axle failure)......but do not recall any of them ever running 24 spline like you will be? Did any of the Dana's run less than 30 spline.....and wonder why?

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....so when a NASCAR takes off it is probably pushing 300-350 hp max and probably even less torque, thus why we do not see more failures than they already have and why it is not reasonable to say that these hubs/drive plates can handle 750hp.

As for repair/interchangability of parts on a floater hub as you know...is very minimal. Maybe a set of bearings or at worst a drive plate (if you run a 24 spline). Well the GMR hub takes a very standard Timken race/bearing/seal that can be had at any auto parts store (Kragen/Auto Zone/Napa/Pep Boys)......as for the drive plate, if I am not mistaken, Jason originally had a Speedway Engineering (which I do believe is interchangable with Moser/Coleman) 24 spline driveplate on his proto type until he decided to improve with the 35 spline drive plate. So if you really believed in this 24 spline driveplate you could even run them on the GMR hub (although this is bordering a sin).....but as for ever replacing a GMR 35 spline driveplate on one of our cars while driving to the coast......never happen. As for breaking a 35 spline axle on one of our cars....never happen. So I do not know what type of maintenence or replacement part you would need if running GMR.....parts that are designed/machined even better than OE that even go 100's of thousands of miles. Site member Donny (dontlifttoshift) seems to drive all over Gods creation, and tracks his car on his GMR kit and has not been seen on the side of the road stranded.....sounds like Moser's discounted price/sponsorship trumped your better judgement. JMO

Sounds like by the time you are done with your kit, it will not be an on the shelf replacement item by Moser or Coleman.

Well other than your floater hub choice.....it is all good, good luck!

[shortrack]

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

So whats the wheelbase now?

[andrewb70]

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

....

He meant at the driveplate, not at the diff...

Andrew

[Ron S]

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

So whats the wheelbase now?

Andrew is right, on that the drive plate end, the axle is 1.5" and 24 spline, the axles Baddride is talking about are 1.5" 35 spline.

The wheelbase will end up being 104", 7" longer then the original 97"

[shortrack]

Andrew is right, on that the drive plate end, the axle is 1.5" and 24 spline, the axles Baddride is talking about are 1.5" 35 spline.

The wheelbase will end up being 104", 7" longer then the original 97"

Ohhh....sorry my mistake

Another FWIW.....a Nascar Busch (Nationwide) series car has a 105" wb and they run 190mph on a regular basis....the Sprint Cup is 110

[Ron S]

I love when someone says never happen, it makes me laugh. I have building cars for more then 30 years, and I weigh the pros and cons of every purchase I make. I appreciate that your such an advocate for GMR, hey its a good product, seriously looking at for my Mustang(more of a track car). Dude, have you ever seen the slicks on a Cup car? There is NOTHING I'm going to do with a pro touring car with 200 tread wear tires that will get close to the limits on these parts. Every Dana equipt Hemi car Chrysler built had 23 spline axles, and none of them ever had an issue, most of the early truck stuff was 16 spline,never saw alot of failures with it either. I could spend more, and it would be stronger, liked the bearing spread and the steel hubs on the Moser parts, and like that fact that they are off the shelf parts. Will have to a little time changing what I don't like, hell I modify everything.

[BADDRIDE II]

Fair enough....you do like modifying everything, so these will be a good fit.

[WILWAXU]

Another great build!

Look forward to the updates.

[Ron S]

Heres one don't don't see too often, a Dana 60 center section in an oven, cooked for about 45 minutes so the tubes would push in. The tubes had about .003" press, alittle tougher then I was hoping to get in, they are pushed in so tight I really don't seem like they will need to be welded LOL,looks alot like a 3/4 ton pick up rear.

[Dan S.]

What did you baste it with?

[Kenova]

Did you chill the tubes too?

Ken