Young Person Rant

[andrewb70]

That would make a killer starting point. Enjoy as is for a while and make improvents as you wish. I've started to develop a thing for Cougars. A buddy just restored a 67, stuck a later 69 hood scoop on it. It looks killer. They share the Mustang suspension too don't they?

The front is the same design as the Mustang, but the rear is a little different because the Cougars have a longer wheelbase. So the rear leaf springs are different, thus some of the bolt on rear suspension parts need slight modifications to work in a cougar, but there is good aftermarket support.

Andrew

[CamaroMike]

I am a few years younger than you and in the same boat. I know what I want (to go out and have fun on the road course) and currently doing DE's in an E46 BMW until one of the Camaros is ready for track duty. The price and reliability of the E46 is great and I can really get out there and have a blast without breaking the bank! Yes it would be a lot cooler if it was the 69 Camaro on the track but I am working on my "driver mod" and becoming an instructor in hopefully the next 3 years.

When the money is right I will do wheels/brakes/suspension on the 69. I'm still young so I am not trying to rush it.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

That Cougar is pretty cool, and something I'd do, but it's still a high entry price, and building an early Mustang to handle isn't cheap.

Myself, I have to say I'm partial to the 4th gen F-bodies. I loved my 98 Trans Am, it was a decent handling car stock, and just a fun car with a 6 speed. Unfortunately for me as a former owner, the prices have hit what I imagine to be rock bottom, it's not hard to find an LS1 car for $4k, spend another few thousand and you can get a pretty decent example, and a cheap entry point into a fun car. Spend a bit on suspension upgrades, and you have a decently competitive car. I wish I were able to run mine, but at 210k miles on the engine, I didn't want to risk having to rebuild it after pushing it to the limits. Though she still ran outstanding when I sold her, I just didn't want to become much more buried in it than I already way. Besides, that money went to buying my 71 Firebird.

[06RangerSTX]

This may be a stupid thought but would it be possible to build a pro-touring car for like maybe $5,000 or less? If I were to build a car, it would be used for a wide variety of things like track days, drag racing and even autocross... maybe something like the Camaro/Malibu/Monte Carlo would be THE car to build then... I can find running/driving examples of late 70s early 80s Camaros for about $2500 or even less... Could I drive at a track day with a carbureted 350 small block and not have too much fuel cutout when pulling Gs? Many companies seem to have full bolt on kits for instance the G-body GM car. I think tires and wheels are the real cost investment into building a car, but I may be able to find the work around to even that.

[BMR Sales]

This may be a stupid thought but would it be possible to build a pro-touring car for like maybe $5,000 or less? If I were to build a car, it would be used for a wide variety of things like track days, drag racing and even autocross... maybe something like the Camaro/Malibu/Monte Carlo would be THE car to build then... I can find running/driving examples of late 70s early 80s Camaros for about $2500 or even less... Could I drive at a track day with a carbureted 350 small block and not have too much fuel cutout when pulling Gs? Many companies seem to have full bolt on kits for instance the G-body GM car. I think tires and wheels are the real cost investment into building a car, but I may be able to find the work around to even that.

No I don't think you build anything that is Track-Safe for $5,000 unless you were given a project that was pretty far along. Brakes, Wheels & Tires will eat up half your budget. Still need Suspension & Safety Mods. And....

How do you make a Small Fortune in Racing








Start with a Large Fortune!

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Yeah, $5k won't get you anywhere on building a P-T car out of something that was never designed to handle. That's where something like a 4th gen F-body, or maybe even C4 Corvette would be good. Decent handlers out of the box, at this point they'll just need some worn parts gradually replaced and upgraded. To build up an older car you'd need to allot at least $3k to get some good suspension going, which doesn't leave you a lot for buying a car.

[Aficionado]

In the $5,000 range, the C4 Corvette is very appealing, since it was designed to handle and as another poster pointed out, you're not fighting an uphill battle with a car that was never designed to go around curves.

It all depends on what your ultimate goals are. If you want it to be your forever car, starting with a much cheaper car may limit how far you want to take it later--a lot of people, for example, would choke at spending the money required to beef up the rear end of a C4 when that alone could cost more than you spent for the whole car. It's a lot easier to justify a $4,000 trans or an $8,000 motor with a car for which you paid $20,000. On the other hand, if you want something fun to drive while you're learning the skillsets, there's nothing wrong with starting with a less expensive car, in which case, yeah, I'd like the C4 for that.

My personal inclination was to pick what I wanted and then make whatever sacrifice it took to get it and build it, even though it involved a lot of time and work to get there. Other approaches, though, are equally valid.

[MonzaRacer]

I beg to differ. My Monza will be built on a LOT less than $5000.
USED 283 short block $200
Double humps rebuilt $400 in parts.
Engine parts $250
Used efi parts $250
Free efi intake
77 Monza $100
Th350 TCI w/ converter $50
Used Corvette wheels $300
Tires used $200
Tires new $350
ridetech coilovers $700
Rear shock $350
ZR2 rear end free
Figure another $500 for incedental pieces.
$3300 +/-
And this all over time.
My future plans will add in twin eBay turbos, figure eat $250 each, 2/$50 blow off valves, tubing kit from eBay, intercooler $200. Turbo headers $200, 2/$25 adapters. Still deal in on th700r4.
Body work on my own, figure $200 in materials.
I can paint a car with implement paint for less than $200 or spring for some plastidip might make it $500.
Deals can be had, found 4 fox bodies for less than $500 decent shape.
Those are easy to make turn and burn. You don't need big money just use your brains.
I have heard of couple of guys autocrossing cars like my 98 regal, montes, impalas, etc.
Heck saw one guy with an old z24 Cavalier. Low pro tires and 4 way harness.
Guy was awesome against big power cars, had ebrake turns mastered to a T.
Heck he took something like third against some big money/shop built cars.
I'm gonna bet an old fbody ,2nd gen, eibach springs, reasonable shocks, some used low pro tires even in say 16s could suffice as a set of larger wheels and better tires are procured.
I will bet no one would think a car built out of used,throw away parts, for $400 towed by a $500 truck, on a $300 trailer could
compete all year long in a sportsman class drag race series, finish in top 8 for run off at end of season.
I did it in 1990, ran 9.30's in 1/8th, then drove it through the winter.
So Ru king cheap if you plan accordingly is easy. Heck I didn't even have full time job when I started that project.
I have mentored and helped with tuning and teaching in bracket racing to years on budgets to other people.
One fellow picked up a 78 Z28, factory 3.73 posi, used to have 350, bought it with bad cammed 307.
We leaked down the long block, it was fairly solid. So we installed a Comp cam, cheap roller tip rockers, Autozone headers, with extensions. He swapped yard work for some old slapper bars, sanded down, painted yellow.
His neighbor had some old rally wheels with slicks, old and getting hard from sitting but serviceable, we would bag them with track bite.
He worked in tractor shop, found some old Allen bolts 1/2 x20 grade8 , so he had wheels studs for cheap.
He ran 307 with old cast intake and tweaked qjet two years, saved and scrounged for 350, got another 307 crank cheap, score $50 set of 0.030 forged pistons.
We ported heads, added Z springs 1.94/1.50 valves and 5 angle valve job. The came off 307. Sold short block to another racer.
He scored a race prepped AT with stall converter.
Lucky it matched cam well enough.
Ran that 327 for 4 years, several cam/ intake combos. Heck he ran qjet through 5 yrs till can got too big.
Owner scored ex super class 355 along with big tube headers, and trans.
Swapped in some USD 4.56gears and spool, and it ran low 6s uncut, pushed 5.90s on NOS.
Yeah he still has car, dragged it 15 yrs now son is building it back up as pro-touring car.
He is wanting to do LSx, jury's out heck he may just redo the old 327.
He scored some eibach springs, what he thinks are either Hotchkiss bars or Addco. He is figuring new bushings, tall ball jpints, maybe see if dad will spring for adjustable ridetech shocks, and some eBay 17s or 18s.
Start with elcheapo low pro tires and see what happens.
Figure kid will have cheap corner burner for well shy of $5000 if he plays cards right, starts with aggressive pads on a stock brakes, saves for Corvette brakes later.

So make a plan, do your homework, gather your parts and have fun. Heck I know one guy ran good guys and sold his car for $5000 after, ran as is. He paid $1000 just few days before and dragged it out of a garage being torn down. Buyer also gave home diesel jetta, drove it two years for college, some vw guy gave him $3500 for it as he graduated. Dad gave him $5000 for grad gift
Went and paid $10000 for slightly modded first gen,bought some used Forgelines and tada he has awesome pro touring car in less than three years.
Short story, think, plan, execute. Does not take big money every time.

[Interceptor5588]

IMHO, best bang-for-buck handling car out of the box from GM is still the third-gen F-body (IROC-Z/Formula.) I keep one as my weekend/racecar while I'm building the GTO. I probly have about $10k in it and it keeps up with new Corvettes, BMW's etc at the track pretty well, whereas I have about $25k into the GTO and it's still on stands . . .

Anything built earlier is cooler but will take $5k to get it to handle as well as a stock IROC. Even the second-gen F-bodies prices are picking up for clean examples, and they're 500 lbs heavier.

As for building the car of your dreams, pick the car you REALLY want, hopefully running, and do it up over time. Don't rip the whole thing apart because it will stay that way for 3 or 20 years and unless you win the lottery you and your wife will come to hate it because it will hog all of your time, money and garage space. Pick something with as little rust as you can afford as it can cost $10,000 just to fix rust, money that could be spent on Pro-Touring stuff.

[Twentyover]

I seem to recall a $5000 Mustang. While he has since chosen to exceed that budget, @ 5K Ron had a damn credible effort

[1truckguy78]

I'm only 25, with still $32k in student loans plus countless medical bills and back to living at home. My project is on the way back burner for now. Yeah Dad bitches about it taking up the garage but at the end of the day that truck sitting there is what keeps my sanity from all the crap in my life. I dream about it everyday and remember driving it. One day I'll have money to work on it. You can't give up, remember your dreams and what you are working towards.

[killer69]

My FIRST car was a TRUCK a 1953 Ford that I bough from the farmer up the street for 300.00 when I was 13. didn't run had 20 coats of paint on it I had that torn apart in my Dad's garage. at the time I was working at the local Ford dealer washing cars after school I was making 2.50 an hour but hey I god a DEAL on Parts!!! and I owned a FORD.
and from there it just snowballed, my next car when I was 17 was a 1975 Olds OMEGA @ dr bucket seats 350, man that car did CRAZY one wheel burn outs!! oh I had to try painting it and swapped the motor. then I got a 67Mustang coupe, 289 4 spd black RED VELVET interior (remember this was 1988) then I got a SVO mustang it just kept progressing. I always worked on peoples cars on the side and made some extra money I worked at the parts store to get deals on parts. I never did anything but work on cars. opened a shop 11 years ago and here we are. still working on other peoples cars!!

[dhutton]

I couldn't afford it when I was 33 either. I window-shopped, as you say. I read car magazines to keep my interest.

Finally, when I was 40, I got started on a 9 year project. Careful shopping, doing as much work myself as possible, etc. Hell, even today (I'm 55), I can't afford to travel around the country to a bunch of car events. I can only manage 4-5 a year.

It was worth it, though!

I took a 20 year break from cars between 30 and 50 to take care of more important things such as building home equity and retirement savings etc. When I turned 50 I built a shop and jumped in with both feet doing as much as I could to limit costs. Sometimes you have to set priorities to insure that you are successful in all of life's pursuits.

Don

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Despite popular belief it really doesn't take a lot of $ to have fun in the pro touring world. Rather it takes a lot to have all the bells, whistles, billet and carbon fiber so you can try to keep up with the guys that have the fat wallets. I started autoXing by simply cutting the stock springs to lower the car 3" and put on some $300 ebay Trans Am 16x8 wheels and BFG 245-50-16s. I had just as much fun racing it that way as I do now, it's just a whole bunch faster than it used to be.

My car has roughly $8,000 into it as you see it, including the $300 for the car itself. Over half that is in the suspension, about 1/4 in the engine and the rest everywhere else. The paint job cost me about $80 in spray paint, the wheels are the cheapest I could find at the time, the tires are cheap(er) 300 TW NT555s. The engine is a basic rebuild on a torquey 400 sbc with factory 400 smog heads that I self ported and a relatively mild Comp XE268 cam, backed by a stock TH350 and converter. All Speedtech suspension parts, Viking coilovers, 2002 Camaro front brakes, a self made roll cage and frame bracing, and factory rear axle with 2.41(!) gears and drum brakes.

The car handles awesome on the autoX. At this point it's track performance is limited by tires so I'm saving for 18's and 200 TW 315s all the way around. The wheels I want are about $150 each, so wheels and tires will be close to another $2000 when the dust settles. On Drag Radials it also runs 13.90s in the 1/4 mile at sea level, going through the lights at 4500 rpms in second gear. All in all it's a blast to drive and proves it doesn't have to cost $100,000 to have fun!

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

^There's a great example. The problem with people getting into pro-touring is the thought that they have to get into a 69 Camaro, 70 Chevelle, or other mainstream muscle car as their first build. There are plenty of later cheaper platforms that can be made to handle just as well (G-bodies, later 2nd gen F-bodies), or handle near as well stock (C4 Vette, 3/4 gen F-body).

[andrewb70]

^There's a great example. The problem with people getting into pro-touring is the thought that they have to get into a 69 Camaro, 70 Chevelle, or other mainstream muscle car as their first build. There are plenty of later cheaper platforms that can be made to handle just as well (G-bodies, later 2nd gen F-bodies), or handle near as well stock (C4 Vette, 3/4 gen F-body).

If you want to start ahead, you have to start with less popular platforms, but those that still have good aftermarket support. The GM G-bodies are an excellent example. GM made millions of those cars and cream puffs can still be found for not much money.

Andrew

[anthonys 69]

there's a show called eastwood hands on cars I watch it on youtube there building a 78 z28 on a budget. I bought a 79 Camaro for $1000.00 not a z. what I do for funds is I save as much money as I can and take advantage of black Friday sales at thanks giving. this gives me a time frame to save and goal to reach. venders like MCB are great people to deal with. last year I bought ridetech front suspension saved 10%, free shipping and got some free stuff to boot. after saving my hard earnd money I spend it on the best deals I can find. if there's no sale there's no rush to buy it from them at that time. my project is coming along nice but its ben about 5 years so far good luck

[06RangerSTX]

So it sounds to me that the common thread would be to to buy a newer generation F-body or go buy a less popular body style... G-body prices seemed to have spiked in recent years. I used to be able to find a 1980 El Camino or Malibu for rather cheap, but they seem worth their weight in gold now. I absolutely miss my 1984 Monte Carlo SS that I used to have in High School! I may still have the chance for the 1976 Chevy Vega that my uncle gave me over 15 years ago. It would be pretty rough, but I could get it for free. I have been researching parts for the car and came up with quite a list that would give me a really fun Pro-Touring esk ride! Come to find out the Vega is unibody but has the torque arm suspension! So a set of springs, decent sway bars, and some adjustable shocks; I would have a incredibly fun to drive car! I found a ton of fiberglass body parts as well, basically everything from fenders to full front ends. The car only weighed in around 3,000lbs. so it would be nothing to possibly get it to around 2700lbs. So I was thinking a small block 350ci chevy with a 5-speed manual should be a good running car!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

This site is pro touring not pro racing. It is easy to get caught up in the extreme end of things. I am constantly wowed by what I see on here, but I see these inspirations as my end goal. Today is about driving, tomorrow is about making my truck a little better.

[andrewb70]

This site is pro touring not pro racing. It is easy to get caught up in the extreme end of things. I am constantly wowed by what I see on here, but I see these inspirations as my end goal. Today is about driving, tomorrow is about making my truck a little better.

Amen to that. I probably have less than $15K in the Cougar and it gets more looks than my GTO, and is just as fun (although in different ways) to drive. Matter of fact, I think I'll go for a little drive right now...

Andrew