Engine decision...

[Streetking]

Ok guys, I love my Camaro but I want to change the motor. Kyle thinks I should keep a small block, but I love the way a big block looks and feels in a old muscle car. I know it won't handle as well, but I'm not going to track it. I thought about twin-turbo Ls2 ect., but I just want a mean sounding ground shaking big block. When Steve1969LS1 '68 was at my house, man it sounded mean.I'm sending the red Viper to Underground Racing in the next few months for their twin-turbo pkg, it will make 1300rwh, so I will have my twin-turbo fix. I'm thinking either a 509ci or the 572, what do you guys think? \

Btw, just for kicks I'm getting a estimate for a 434 small block also..
SW

[nancejd]

Why not do an all aluminum big block? Then you can have your cake and eat it too!

[MuscleRodz]

With your budget craving a BB, I would be building an aluminum rat motor. I think the 572 will have hood clearance issues in a stock frame.

Mike

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok guys, I love my Camaro but I want to change the motor. Kyle thinks I should keep a small block, but I love the way a big block looks and feels in a old muscle car. I know it won't handle as well, but I'm not going to track it. I thought about twin-turbo Ls2 ect., but I just want a mean sounding ground shaking big block. When Steve1969LS1 '68 was at my house, man it sounded mean.I'm sending the red Viper to Underground Racing in the next few months for their twin-turbo pkg, it will make 1300rwh, so I will have my twin-turbo fix. I'm thinking either a 509ci or the 572, what do you guys think? \

Btw, just for kicks I'm getting a estimate for a 434 small block also..
SW

All aluminum big block with a custom EFI set-up... call up wheel to wheel and I'm sure they can set you up.. The alum block would sure help with the weight issue.

There are some nice alum big blocks out there.. If you are going to do then do it right

[Steve1968LS2]

With your budget craving a BB, I would be building an aluminum rat motor. I think the 572 will have hood clearance issues in a stock frame.

Mike

Believe it or not I typed my suggestion before reading this pearl of wisdom

big block + EFI = hood clearance

[zbugger]

Ok guys, I love my Camaro but I want to change the motor. Kyle thinks I should keep a small block, but I love the way a big block looks and feels in a old muscle car. I know it won't handle as well, but I'm not going to track it. I thought about twin-turbo Ls2 ect., but I just want a mean sounding ground shaking big block. When Steve1969LS1 '68 was at my house, man it sounded mean.I'm sending the red Viper to Underground Racing in the next few months for their twin-turbo pkg, it will make 1300rwh, so I will have my twin-turbo fix. I'm thinking either a 509ci or the 572, what do you guys think? \

Btw, just for kicks I'm getting a estimate for a 434 small block also..
SW

You're a sick, sick man...... God bless america.

[yody]

yes, eventually I will be going with EFI on my BBC so i can put the formula hood back on(did you hear my video clip?) I would either go super radical stroked small block with an 18 degree valvetrain and a sheetmetal intake EFI, or go with an all aluminum BBC or Iron. I would build a 540 based off a Dart block or a GM502 block. you use a 502 bore of 4.500 and a stroker crank of 4.25 and you get a monster 540 that you can get 700 horse easy and still have street manners. Put my cam in a 540 and you will have a pretty tame idle and good vacuum and awesome street manners with a great torque curve. Definetly DON"T do a GM572 motor, they are expensive/talldeck/and not the ideal stroke/bore. Supposedly the high stroke creates lots of harmonics. Those motors (at least to me) are for showing off. iF you want a crate motor look to Sharifoff, they build some pretty good motors. YOu could put together a killer iron 540 for about $7000 long block. Solid roller would be the way to go, but not 100% streetable, a solid flat tappet goes a long way, hydrorollers are a no-no on a bbc, unless redline is 5,500rpm. Although a crazy small block, like what was originally built for the mule would be pretty cool!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I agree with the above. I'd do a 540ci aluminum BBC. 1300rwhp on the viper? That's gotta be good for bottom 8s, high 7s?!

[yody]

aluminum would be killer, but thinking about it again, if you arent' doing any track stuff, i wouldn't worry about the aluminum. It is really expenisve and needs to have a machinist who has done them before. A good aftermarked Dart block would be perfect or even a GM 502

[Matt@RFR]

You guys are thinking way too small!!! If yer gonna spend SW's money, then SPEND IT! lol

4.5" bore x 4.125" stroke = 525cid.
12:1 on 50/50 mix gas
310º duration @ .050"
.900"-ish lift
Shift @ 9,000RPM

Or same cam with 4.6" bore x 4.75" stroke = 632cid.

[yody]

yeah a 632 would be sweet, but the heads that you would need to support it and for it to make any sense would start getting into huge$$$ I like the first combo! sounds like a screamer!!! [email protected]!!

[4MuscleMachines]

I'd go with the big rat in all aluminum, Shafiroff also custom makes the aluminum beasts.

[race-rodz-inc]

how about a 10,000 rpm SB2? you could prolly pick up a ready to run nascar motor "reasonable".

[chicane67]

It is really expenisve and needs.......

I dont believe this Cat has budget restraints, there yoda.


My direction would be toward either an alloy 7.0+L LSx or an alloy EFI 540 'ish cid conventional roller Big Block. Then call me to build your differential set-up for traction control.

In reality, too much torque....... is..... well, its too much.

[Streetking]

You guys are too much. :rolleyes5 Thanks for all the feedback, it give me alot to think about. I don't want to go with any type of LS motor because I don't want to change my subframe set up. Yody, thanks for the heads up on the 572, I don't know much about them. I will check with Shafiroff to see more options.

As usual, you guys are very helpful, costly, but helpful.. :icon_razz

SW

[kmcanally]

how about a 10,000 rpm SB2? you could prolly pick up a ready to run nascar motor "reasonable".

my sentiments exactly...go to
http://www.musclemotorparts.com/menuleft.htm and check out their complete SB2 Nascar engines they build.

[kmcanally]

Here are the specs for the 750hp race version SB2 from Muscle Motorsports....dayum! Sonny Bryant billet crank,Carillo rods, Wilson intake, dry sump,! Add a 250 shot to that hell for stout bottom end and you will have your 1k hp at the push of a button. The 600 hp street version is virtually the same except the compression is 10:1 and 18 deg heads in place of the SB2's

# 355 – 360 cubic inches Compression ratio 13:1 runs on “race” gas
# Block: Race Prepped Chevy BowTie, 4 Bolt Mains, Splayed Billet Caps
# Pistons: Forged Aluminum Alloy, J&E or equal, Bore 4.125
# Crank: Billet Sonny Bryant, Stroke 3.335, 32-45 lbs. 1.88 to 2.1 rod journals
# Rods: Carrillo or Lentz 6.20” H beam. Carr Bolts
# Jesel Belt Drive Timing Set
# ATI Balancer
# Heads: SB2.2CNC Ported Aluminum Chevy Cylinder Heads w/ Del West 2.150 Titanium Intake Valves, 1.600 Titanium exhaust valves, Comp Cams triple valve springs, Titanium retainers and keys, Copper Berylium Valve Seats, Heads Flow 390 cfm @ .700 lift.
# Cast Aluminum Chevy Valve Covers, personalized for owner
# Jesel shaft mounted roller rockers 1.70 to 2.00 ratio
# Cam: Competition Cams Solid roller, 106 Deg. Centerline, Lift= .706 intake and .630 exhaust, Duration 324 intake and 332 exhaust
# Lifters: Crower or equal, true roller lifters
# Pushrods: CV or equal 3/8” * 9.050 * .080 wall
# Wilson Intake manifold and Tapered 4 Hole Spacer 2.00" Part# 004150
# Quick Fuel 850 cfm “Drag Carb”
# Moroso or equal fabricated sheetmetal drysump pan
# Oil System: dry sump, external pump Barnes or equal
# Specifications subject to change (typical specs. may be adjusted for customer requirements)

[Todds69]

aluminum block and EFI....that's the ticket!!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Remeber too much torque is a enemy on the street. Torque is good, but to much is no good, and the 572s are torque blobs. The car is only 3500lbs or so, you don't need monster torque. I would do a serious RPM motor if you are after sound and performance. nothing sounds like a big block at 8000RPMS! I would go 4.50 bore, short storke 3.75 crank, Big bore to unshroud and allow big valves, short storke to limit torque and turn serious Rs. Big heads, maybe AFR 357s or even Big Duke, Pro Fillers, small big cheifs. Get it to flow north of 425CFM, big roller on 106 or 108 which will sound like it is shooting people, and be a bit peaker at higher RPMS, and kill a little bottom end torque. You could make 750 to 850 NA no problem, and have a road race type RPM range. With the manual trans, and a 3.73 gear, you will have plenty of low end reduction, and believe me, even though it is not making 572 torque, this motor will still make enough torque to blow the tires off at will.

[Steve Chryssos]

As usual, when it comes to engines, I fully agree with Frank. That works out to "only" about 477ci--which will make the bench racers cringe. But combined with a good set of 325cc rectangular port heads you'll have ungodly power where you need it coupled with more than ample power down low. It's a great option for a car that has a mild chassis.

Go with a 10.200" deck height block so that you can achieve ideal rod/stroke ratio--on par with a small block (1.7:1 or 1.8:1). Run fuel injection to compensate for flame travel issues arising from the big bores.

Best of all the engine will last forever. You can keep freshening up the block by boring in .030" or .060" increments every coupla years. The true safe limit on good aftermarket blocks is 4.600", so that's a lot of rebuilds!

Avoid an aluminum big block on the street. Aluminum big block castings "move around" during heat cycling. The result is possible ring seal issues and potential coolant leaks. Expect to re-torque the heads frequently at the very least. That's to be expected with a race engine that gets freshened regulary, but not the smartest idea for a true street engine.
/Steevo