Engine decision...

[camcojb]

In a big block I'd stick with a standard deck block. In the aftermarket you can still do big cubes (557+) but the tall deck just makes hood clearance a nightmare.

I'd also lean heavily towards a custom fabbed intake, something unique to make the car stand out even more. EFI obviously.

Jody

[Nine Ball]

Don't get too crazy with the numbers game when it comes to cubes. I agree with what Frank and Steevo are saying. Big blocks are cool, but not as cool as an LS7 or C5R 427 under the hood of that black beast.

8K rpm 427ci would be drool city.

[yody]

I don't know, you guys are throwing out some crazy stuff, If you look at all the othert cars/motors SW has, most of the motors arne't as crazy as you guys are specing, they might have nos/turbos, but i think they are all pretty streetable. The camaro looks like a nice protouring car, but I think a race motor wouldn't really belong in it. I think SW was looking for more of a well rounded streetable motor with a nice sound and lots of power. I like Franks motor as a pipe dream, but would probably cost big time money, like $15,000 to do it right, high rpm motors require big time expert assembly and super high end bottom end parts. 7,000 rpm in a 427 is doable but 8,000 in a bbc is another ball park. Definetly sounds like a nice combo, although I have a feeling with those parts I think he might be able to smoke the tires, but without some steep gearing I think it might be mushy down low. I havne't totally got on my motor yet, but I like it a lot. It has a nice idle but doesnt' shake the whole car, it is loud when you get on it, but not awful. "So far" it seems like I am not just blowing off the tires at any time I think I hit the combo just right. Although I haven't tried a full thorttle blast when rolling, it might just blow the tires off. It seems like it wants to rev and at about 4,000 rpm it just starts breathing, and the car seems like it weighs about 1,000ilbs! I think the 3:73's and the vipert T56 along with the victor jr intake, small rectangle heads(305) and fairly large solid roller and decent header size help it kill a little low end. I think the 477 or whatever would be cool, maybe down size it a little to limit the rpms. I think the 540 would be the easiest/cheapest/reliable out of the bunch. Any of these bbc's are going to give him traction problems.

[yody]

also listen to Jody, he's built a few over the top BBC's!

BTW. the 572 isn't necessarily such a bad motor, its IMO overpriced and would be a pain in the ass to install. and like frank said a huge torque monster, and if there 620hp rating is true then it is a piece of junk, but i have heard it puts out more like 680. Also sharifoff is a good place but there other choices out there too, I recommend a really good local guy

[ProdigyCustoms]

Take it from a former street racer, mushy down low is a good thing. unless you get your rocks off on having a car that cannot hook up. Like we are building, LOL!

[Steve Chryssos]

Yody,
If you don't have enough beans to break loose a tire with a 30 series aspect ratio, you probably shouldn't be in this thread at all.

In fact, you should pull your carburetor. You may have accidentally left a wrench or a floor jack in your intake tract.

[Orngcrush69]

If you're not going to put it on the track (which you still could) and you have an unlimited amount of money, then go with the BBC.

[Mean 69]

We have a similar question for the engine in our new shop tool. If this is a street car, or will be driven primarily on the street, it is super tough to beat an FI rat motor. Cubic inches rule, period, on the street in terms of power versus cost, versus complexity. Power adders are really awesome, but add weight big time. In order to make things a bit nicer from a balance issue (weight), I'd recommend an alloy block, although I specifically haven't owned one before. The king of the hill in alloy blocks, based upon my recent research, is Donovan. GM and World both offer really nice looking stuff, but if you look at what the really serious races use, and recommend, Donovan is the winner.

Anyway, case in point, the current shop mule has a nice stroker SBC (383). It has a lot of cam, a solid roller with 252 degrees duration at .050", and it is not a really "nice" street motor. It makes 10" of vacuum at idle, so vacumm assisted brakes are a no-go. I estimate power (when tuned right, which is not my personal strong suit), at about 525 - 550 HP. For the current car, we want 650-700 HP. Imagine how severe a small block would be? Eeek.

I love the NASCAR motors, used, they are a terrific value. You'll hate them on the street, because of the rev factor (need to spin them), and more importantly, the dry sump oiling systems. Great for a track whore, not good for a driven car.

Anyway, the thinkig currently is 540 ci, parts are readily available, Donovan block, wet sump, and likely (oh my) a hydraulic cam. Within a few pounds of a iron block/al head SBC, and WAY more friendly and reliable. Too much torque? Well. yes, that's always a possibilty, but if you have too much, there are two things you can do: improve the suspension, and learn to feed the throttle nicer.

Go get 'em!
Mark

[blazer4corners]

A buddy of mine has a PUMP gas 582 in his truck ,made from a 502 block.It don't run any better on race gas than on pump.It's almost 10.1.It does 12.40's in a 1 ton 4wd on rear slicks only.Did I say the truck is setup for pulling and gets DRIVEN on a regular basis.

[yody]

Yody,
If you don't have enough beans to break loose a tire with a 30 series aspect ratio, you probably shouldn't be in this thread at all.

In fact, you should pull your carburetor. You may have accidentally left a wrench or a floor jack in your intake tract.

It's not that i haven't grown the beans, its that I DON"T want to break the tires loose. also i have a 35 series tire I am sure if i put the pedal to the metal it would burn all down the street, but considering there is not sheetmetal on the car, it has about 2 miles on it, and the neighbors are already calling the police, I don't think "trying" to spin the tires is a smart thing.

Just as a side note, my cam is only pulling like 7" of vacuum, it is a tad big though especially for a "little" 454. But the roller helps smoothen out the idle, not from the smoothness of the roller but how the cams are designed.

Frank. I totally agree with you on the torque thing, exactly why I built my car the way I did! All of the drag racers LOVE torque that seems to be the new fad, but as a more all around car/handling car I really didn't want to be burning tires at 60mph at all. I think an aluminum block would be killer, but I believe they are like $4000 dollars bare( I could be wrong here) I don't think the trade off would be worth it, especially since he already stated he wasn't going to track the car and wasn't too concerned.

[Charley Lillard]

Red Witch has over 15000 miles on it's aluminum 532" and has been trouble free fun driving. Now it is being freshened with a bigger crank to make 565" with a W2W fabbed intake. I love big block torque.

[yody]

wow, that is really, really cool, expensive....but cool! You have driven that one on the track right? Can you tell us how the big block behaves on the track? Not that it applies to this thread but I am curious how an engine with a lot of torque behaves in turns, if not on the track just on any kind of twisties. Something like that would be killer in SW's car. Also what kind/size heads is it running with so many cubes? How about header size? Can you give us a list of specs? Would love to hear about that motor!

[Steve Chryssos]

Charley,
I don't think SW's car has much--if anything-- in the way of chassis reinforcement.
/Steevo

[Nine Ball]

Yody, quit using the word "expensive" in this discussion. This is SW we are talking about, I'm not sure he knows the definition of expensive. HAHA

[Charley Lillard]

"Ok guys, I love my Camaro but I want to change the motor. Kyle thinks I should keep a small block, but I love the way a big block looks and feels in a old muscle car. I know it won't handle as well, but I'm not going to track it. I thought about twin-turbo Ls2 ect., but I just want a mean sounding ground shaking big block."

He is not going to track it so the torque should not be a issue. The 532 would be hard to track because of all the torque but it makes a killer street car.

[shmoov69]

Ok, here is my take. The car will prolly not be tracked, just cruised and drove hard like most of us. You got the money (I'm assuming!). There is nothing like the sound of a big honkin' 800 inch engine!
YEAH BABY!!

[Stuart Adams]

Aluminum Big Block, EFI, sounds good. Especially if you want less weight, BB torque, and great sound. SW, still driving the Trans AM?

[Steve Chryssos]

He is not going to track it so the torque should not be a issue. The 532 would be hard to track because of all the torque but it makes a killer street car.

Let's play out this scenario:
Step 1: Weaken rear frame rails to make room for 13" wide 335's
Step 2: Install 13" wide 335's
Step 4: Add monster torque.
Step 5: Put that crazy texas throttle jockey behind the wheel.

Notice I skipped Step 3: Add chassis reinforcement. Recommending big torque at low rpm without also recommending chassis reinforcement is just plain irresponsible. Track or not, the car will get tweaked.
Your silver car was probably the first to be built around 335's. But the tires are part of a complete and balanced design including matching 275 front rubber and a roll cage. Engine output makes use of the rear tire section width, but not at the expense of the chassis. The Red Witch is similarly equipped.

So hopefully-while at DSE, SW's car will receive the missing links. As of this post, SW has not made any mention of chassis reinforcement, so my input leans towards an engine combination that raises the power band while still fulfilling his desire for a big block.

God I hate bench racing.
/Steevo

[zbugger]

Wow... I actually agree with Steve here. While I think he does have frame connectors, I don't think that's enough. Get on it and hook a little just once and you have a nice wrinkle or angle to the bumper at least. I'd love to see at least a four point bar in it to at least triangulate the rear of the chassis. I just don't wanna see a beautiful car tweaked like that. But I think a high revving big block would be awsome in the car. Make the power sneak up on your passengers. And bring along some adult diapers just in case for them.

[Charley Lillard]

My comments are made on the basis that with the killer cars he already has he would know to make it a complete packaged car.