Speed Tech Lower Control Arm Clearance Problems

[Woody]

What brake system are you running? I initially had a Baer Serious Street system on the front of my 68 Camaro and ran into the same clearance issues when I installed my DSE lower control arms. DSE's arms did not used to have the angled cut out area for added clearance. I ended up switching to the Baer Track system and there is not a clearance problem.

[NovaPwr]

What brake system are you running? I initially had a Baer Serious Street system on the front of my 68 Camaro and ran into the same clearance issues when I installed my DSE lower control arms. DSE's arms did not used to have the angled cut out area for added clearance. I ended up switching to the Baer Track system and there is not a clearance problem.

Woody, I am trying to install the serious street 11" setup also. I like my 15"wheel and tire combo and that is the only reason I went with this setup. Those bigger tires and wheels are really starting to grow on me though Thanks,
Dave

[Mkelcy]

I initially had a Baer Serious Street system on the front of my 68 Camaro and ran into the same clearance issues when I installed my DSE lower control arms. DSE's arms did not used to have the angled cut out area for added clearance.

Okay, I'm waiting for all the Speed Tech bashers to start bashing DSE's product design and testing processes, since they also apparently had the clearance issue on their early production LCA's.

[TitoJones]

Okay, I'm waiting for all the Speed Tech bashers to start bashing DSE's product design and testing processes, since they also apparently had the clearance issue on their early production LCA's.

I'll be the first.
When a company such as DSE makes a new product, I'm positive that Kyle tests it, and makes sure his product fits like it is supposed to. Kyle obviously found out that the ball joint ring caused interference with some brake systems, and changed the design.

Speed-Tech on the other hand is the copy cat of the Pro-Touring world. When they see a cool DSE/GW product, they copy it, and change it just enough to not be an exact replica.
They followed in DSE's tracks, but forgot to copy the updated design.
Here is where the 2 companies differ-
Kyle would take the arm back, fix it, and send it back, no ifs, ands or buts.
Todd on the other hand...
Well, the customer is doing the mod himself. Enough said.
Tyler

[Mkelcy]

I didn't see anything in this thread to indicate that Speed Tech refused to correct the clearance problem on their LCA's, although they may have.

I also didn't see anything in this thead to indicate that DSE took back their early LCA's and corrected the clearance problem, although they may have.

Clearly, DSE didn't "test" their early production LCA's they way you would have Speed Tech "test" theirs now, or else there wouldn't have been a clearance problem on the early DSE arms.

Finally, as a hot rodder, pro-tourer and consumer, I don't think it helps the folks who come to this board to bash products because you think a product may have been copied. That, frankly, is irrlevant to me and to many others if the product works as advertised. It also doesn't help to bash a product because it may have MIG versus TIG welds, when (so far as I'm aware) no one has done any objective testing on whether TIG welds on the tubular LCA's are needed.

In short, objective, fact based information is useful; biased "information" based on personal animosity is not.

However, if anyone who was bashing the Speed Tech product has any actual facts about any actual failure to work as advertised, I'd like to hear about it so I can steer people away from a bad product. Until then, what I think I'm seeing is bias against a manufacturer who is not a member of the club.

[TitoJones]

Mike-
Come on, do we really need to go here again?
I don't think a DSE product was copied. I know it. I can document this back to early 2003 when a guy by the name of 'Mountie' was on Camaros.net asking very specific info regarding a GW tubular A arm. He then came to Camaros.net with a new tubular control arm, and later switched his screen name to Todd Smith. Care to guess where the offset leaf spring shackles came from? Oh, that's right, DSE.
Care to guess where their C5 brake bracket came from?
Baer Racing.
Kyle knows it, as does half the board who chooses not to look the other way.
Being part of a club has little to do with it.
Stealing from within our little PT 'club', and then bringing it right back to the market you stole it from is tacky to say the least.
Look up a few posts, and you find that Kyle did what he could to fix the issue. Try and get Todd on the phone to fix this issue, and you'll know why David is choosing to fix the problem himself.
Tyler

[Mkelcy]

LOL, no I REALLY don't want to go back there again. However . . .

Kyle fixed the subsequent DSE LCA's. On the basis of this thread, I don't know what happened to the LCAs Woody had because he changed brake systems to solve the problem. [Edit - I didn't see Woody's post on what DSE did to resolve the problem. And I agree, DSE's customer service is top notch.]

As for the leaf spring hangers and the brake brackets, I just don't think there's a copying complaint available. The brake brackets are just obvious: I've got a set someone made out of steel; what Speed Tech is doing is much nicer and doesn't require machining of drum brake spindles, but is still pretty obvious. The same goes for the leaf spring hangers.

I'm guesssing you weren't the first person ever to put a T56 in a first gen. Did you copy the cross member or hydralic MC bracket of the folks who did? Probably not because all of the dimensions are obvious from the car and parts themselves. Just like the brake brackets and spring hangers.

As for the UCA's, I read and participated in the infamous Speed Tech UCA thread. I wasn't convinced then and I'm not convinced now that Speed Tech copied. But that said, why should I care if they WERE copied if the product works as advertised. All Speed Tech's copying does is create another source for parts at (perhaps) a lower price point.

And that's my point. There is the product itself, which should (in my opinion) be evaluated on its own merits. Then there is the manufacturer. If the product works, but you don't like the manufacturer, then say that; but don't fault the product because you don't care for the manufacturer.

I respect your knowledge and experience. My quibble is that some guy out there working on his car may spend more than he needs to for a particular part because he's afraid the Speed Tech parts are functionally inferior, when no one to date has proven they are and the only objective guy I've seen on this issue (David Pozzi) hasn't yet found any reason to criticize them that I'm aware of.

[NovaPwr]

Guys, I did not want to start anything negative here. I've been around long enough to see that half of what is bought or manufactured out there needs some tweaking or repaired or replaced. I own a cabinet shop and do custom woodworking and stairway installs, trim new homes etc. I see products everyday that need customized, repaired or replaced before I can use them. That is part of life so I am not too excited about this. I just needed some good advice from people who know their stuff. I sent Todd two e-mails, he answered one. Has not answered the other yet. Did not offer to modify the arms or replace them. I did not ask him to do so. He is hard to get hold of, I agree. Took forever to get the arms, but they look super. If I had been on this forum longer I would have bought from DSE. But all in all, I am not mad about any of this. Just want to solve the problem and move on. I am going to cut away a small section of the skirt area under the ball joint and smile from ear to ear as the suspension gets finished up. Maybe this weekend. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and their opinions, I appreciate them all. It's super to have a place to ask a question like this and get so much help. Thanks again.
Dave Smeal

[Steve Chryssos]

Good point Dave. I think your pix and comments tell the tale. We've all had two rounds at this. It's time to put the smackdown on yet another Speedtech thread.

I, for one, am pissed because nobody commented on my nice Hostas.

[wickedmotorhead]

I also didn't see anything in this thead to indicate that DSE took back their early LCA's and corrected the clearance problem, although they may have.

Woody stated that DSE took care of the problem and that this is only a problem with certain brake systems therefore not all the control arms would need to be recalled (which they would have if needed). Speedtech may or may not take care of the problem, but I'm a little weary when they start blaming the brake manufacturer for the problem as their initial solution. And it does sound like that was the final answer since he was going to modify them himself (NOTE: which was posted two business days after his initial post!).

In order for either vendor to check clearance issues they would have to invest A LOT of money to get every single brake kit that someone might run. This is hot rodding, everyone has different setups and not every single avenue can be known every time. Hopefully vendors have a good idea of what they are up against and design accordingly, but in some rare instances things like this happen and the corrective action is to fix it as fast as possible and at no charge and maybe some incentive for the problem.

I agree on the welds. Without any test data to back either one up as far as rigidity goes, comments are mearly opinions and not fact based.

Some may or may not care if a company "copys" anothers products. In fact it could be considered an act of flattery, BUT looking at the products for those that do care its obvious ST products are byproducts of other vendors ideas and just makes you wonder how much actual thought, design, and engineering is behind their products and how much R&D was actually spent. For example look at their UCAs in the middle of DSE and GW arms. See any similarities.



Or the offset shackles....Either way I don't think anyone here is "bashing" anyone just putting pieces of the puzzle together of things we do know.