Protouring Poll

[69rs]

That darn Bill! Always stirring the pot, trying to make folks mad! Coming up with polls and stuff! Bad Bill!

[Bill Howell]

Hey it's all love here. Great discussion I think. I ain't mad or upset. Steve, I tried NOT to use labels. It seems to me that my question has been answered loud and clear as to the general meaning of the word. I still will have A/C on all my junk but may hold off on the cupholders
One thing is for sure, I will have to do at least one track day (gently though-LOL) just to see how all the new suspension does. Like has been mentioned earlier, it is probably the saftest place to try a car out anyway.
OH Yeah, off topic but if anyone comes to Baltimore, the seafood is killer here and the cheesecake ain't bad either.

[nancejd]

Wow, this thread is drawing a lot of attention. I don't think there is any reason to become upset though, I think everyone has made an attempt to keep the discussion civil and on topic. I think we forget sometimes that everybody has their own opinion, and that some are trying to justify their decisions by getting the acceptance of others. I still say in the the end though, it's your car or my car, it's never going to be our car, so you do what you want, and I'll do what I want. Someday, I'll build another car, and take it to the track, that's just not what I'm building my car to do right now.

Speaking of tracts, at first I thought we were talking about the line from Monty Python's Holy Grail "she has huge tracts of land".

In the end, I think the one thing we shouldn't loose sight of is that this is suppossed to be fun for all of us. After all, at least for me, is that in order to be offended by someone else's opinion, I'd have to care what they thought in the first place.

[Roger Poirier]

You should see what other pepole are saying about "Pro Touring guys" on other message boards these days.

I guess it's really time for me to move on. I'm outta here. So long.

Come an Salt Racer. Each persons perspective is what makes life go around. Its called a horse race. If we were all the same, the world would be pretty boring. Relax and stick around for a while. I would think all opinions are welcome.


What web site were you refereing to?

[Roger Poirier]

And when did Webster die and leave definitions up to Jeff Smith?

I like it! You the man.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey it's all love here. Great discussion I think. I ain't mad or upset. Steve, I tried NOT to use labels. It seems to me that my question has been answered loud and clear as to the general meaning of the word. I still will have A/C on all my junk but may hold off on the cupholders
One thing is for sure, I will have to do at least one track day (gently though-LOL) just to see how all the new suspension does. Like has been mentioned earlier, it is probably the saftest place to try a car out anyway.
OH Yeah, off topic but if anyone comes to Baltimore, the seafood is killer here and the cheesecake ain't bad either.

No worries.. I just meant people use lables because that is just human nature, it's a shame people get upset over them though. the only lable that really counts is the one YOU give to YOUR car..

My cars are pro-sweaty since I never have AC.. lol..

Cheesecake

[Matt@RFR]

Speaking of tracts, at first I thought we were talking about the line from Monty Python's Holy Grail "she has huge tracts of land".

No no no! It's all in the presentation.....

"She has huuuuuge........................................tr acts of land."

[Jim Nilsen]

A 20 foot show car that you drive like you stole it is what I want. Heck if I have to put fake bullet holes on it to make it look like I have been chased by evil people or the police just to get a point across to everyone that I just want to do everything I do to my car to the best of my ablility but not really care in the end if it's a show car I just might. Long live show quality Race cars.

Johnny already made me feel at ease when he said he would put a car that is driven and has paint chips and a few dings or dents on it in his Primedia magazines. So why worry?

I just can't stop my compulsion to do quality work, it's how I see myself in what I create. I did my paint myself and it took me 1.5 years and cost me about a grand. Is it show quality? From the few people that have seen it up close, they sem to think it will more than pass for show from 5 ft or less. Do I really care? Hell yea, the compliment reflects on me as an amature painter. Would I spend 5 grand on a show quality paint job? My wallet says I can't. So go figure a budget and build it the way you can afford to.

I will feel more pride in my car when people look at the level of engineering that I am capable of. I have copied, I will emphisize copied everything from examples from every kind of car building that exist out there. When you tear a car apart like mine or IIMuch you have a lot of room to put mant differnent types of tech into it.

Steevo's making $$ from doing what started in F1 racing and the drooling effect it has on people if they can afford it. He made it affordable and I hope he does well with it because seeing the vision and having the innovation to take what was there and bring it to everyones reality is what makes this site so great !!

I think most of us just want to get our cars done and drive them .But doing it yourself and having the money to do it can take us in two different time frames and two different paths wich leads to four times the problems for some of us.

I like what Charlie thinks about the guy who pays for the whole car to be done by someone else. It doesn't make him less of an enthusiatst because they can get it all at once because they can afford it it's what you do with it that counts. Let me drive a show car for a month and see what I think when someone ask me if I am going to fix those paint chips? Hell why would I fix it, do you want the next one to be lonley? You fix them when you hit something and have to replace the panel don't you ?

I like to see you guys deal with this in so many different ways that it makes my head hurt. No wonder Katz wants to go back in time. Some people take it too seriously but it tantalizes us to still be different which is good. I remember a long time ago when people thought you had to have a 1st gen Camaro to be here. Now it has blossomed into something that everyone should feel comfortable and have a place to be here. With so much creativity here it will continue to change.

I have things that I am doing to my car that I haven't shared here simply because I want to actually have something different when it's done. Some people here know what I am talking about because I have PMed them about what I am doing and if some of you have been paying attention I have leaked it out but never made a specific thread to flaunt it. Hell some of the ideas might not even work but they they are my ideas and I want to do it.

So if you think were all confused now ,wait until others that have been working for years finally get their cars done and you will know what I am talking about.

I remember telling a few here long ago that they needed to watch what they were saying because there were many engineers and journalist lurking around from major car companies and magazines that were watching. Now it's common place to see them here.

This is and always will be a great place to learn but if opinion drives you crazy and you can't find yourself and your place for your car between the lines then you will feel a little off the track and I think the goal is to be on the track. At least it's mine .

Jim Nilsen

[Steve Chryssos]

Don't we do that already by showing a wide variety of cars from low buck cruisers to mega dollar rides?
Not like I have any pull but I am always curious to discuss this stuff

Yes, PHR does show a wide variety of cars. That's different than creating one 4-6 page "trends" article. It would highlight the diversity instead of passively showing it over many months.

One article that has pix of many different cars and showcases trends and highlights diversity.

Ebony and Ivory......together in perfect harmoneeeeeee.

[Steve1968LS2]

Yes, PHR does show a wide variety of cars. That's different than creating one 4-6 page "trends" article. It would highlight the diversity instead of passively showing it over many months.

One article that has pix of many different cars and showcases trends and highlights diversity.

Ebony and Ivory......together in perfect harmoneeeeeee.

Gotcha.. I will run it up the flagpole at the next edit meeting..

And please.. don't start singing...

You gonna be at Columbus?

[Steve Chryssos]

You gonna be at Columbus?

I'm tryin. 90% likelyhood.

[bnickel]

well since i think that pro-touring, g-machines or whatever you want to call them originated from the original canyon carvers of the late 70's and 80's that the main goal is to make the car handle well AND have the creature comforts of a modern car. my car has and will continue to have 15" wheels so i guess my car is more "restomod" than pro tour or g machine, whatever. to me my car is a street machine that i'm building myself to do the things i want it to do, mainly handle well and be more comfortable that the typical 35 year old car. personally i despise the term pro touring or pro anything for that matter since it implies that you PAID someone to build the car for you. i don't think there is any one way to build a car that is correct, build it the way you want to build and if it fits in category great if it doesn't even better. i would love to get my car on road course someday but there aren't any here in west texas, matter of fact there aren't even many roads with curves in them but there are plenty of roads that are flat and straight as an arrow as far the eye can see so high speed runs can be fun. anyway i think all the labels have gotten pretty ridiculous. i know it is human nature to put a label on something but when they start get out of hand that's when the fun stops and someone comes up with another "style" to build their car after and the previous label just kind of dies. my feeling is build the car the way you want and build it to do what you want and don't worry about the labels. personally i think if your car can do any of the above and do it well you have a kick ass car, so enjoy it.

[69rs]

Labels don't have to imply anything bad. It's just a descriptive term. To say "I have a 69 RS Camaro pro-touring car" is more descriptive than saying "I have a car". And it's just as descriptive but not as wordy as saying "I have a 69 Camaro with the RS appearance package that I have lowered, upgraded the wheels, tires, brakes" etc.

[DLinson]

I think the reason why crap like this keeps popping up is recent surge in number of "I-don't-wanna-scratch-my-car-on-tracks-but-I-have-to-have-over-engineered-suspension-and-brakes-so-I-get-respects-at-car-shows Pro Touring guys

I have a feeling who this comment was aimed at. I wonder if he'll still help me figure out the spring rates for my Nova if he knows I probably won't take it to the track, at least for a few years. I'll get it done one way or another.

I don't mind the labels though. It's kind of like the street rodders vs. the hot rodders. To me if it has four wheels and someone has made an effort to make it their own, I can appreciate that no matter what it is. I'm not going to tell some kid with his lowered Civic with the fart can on the back that is a pile of junk, he probably spent every penny he had to mod it, the way he wanted to.

I'm with Jim Nelson on the building aspect. I really enjoy building and creating machines. I'm a mechanical engineer and I also have an art degree. It's part of me. I'm not a race car driver and never plan to be. It is also nice to hear positive feedback from people you respect, I guess that's why I posted updated pics of my Nova here. I didn't post any on any other board.

I hope everyone can take this for what it is, a light hearted discussion on our hobby.

Dennis Linson

[Bill Howell]

Labels don't have to imply anything bad. It's just a descriptive term. To say "I have a 69 RS Camaro pro-touring car" is more descriptive than saying "I have a car". And it's just as descriptive but not as wordy as saying "I have a 69 Camaro with the RS appearance package that I have lowered, upgraded the wheels, tires, brakes" etc.

One other thing I have found is when you say Protouring, it usually is followed by "What is Protouring?" and you have the golden opportunity to explain to another wondering soul what at least your interpretation of Protouring is and also tell them about our little club here. It is all about promoting the hobby and the site. If you tell two,they tell two.....

[rickk]

bill i am with you . you have a g t o i have a 73 camaro lets be different .not a 69 camaro.

keep up the good work .
thanks rick kirkindall

[69rs]

not a 69 camaro.

Yeah, 69 Camaro's suck!

[phaseshift]

Of course I voted for the least popular category.

[Steve1968LS2]

Of course I voted for the least popular category.

I wouldn't say it is the least popular catagory.. look at how people here love big red..

It is just that most people have to be practical in thier approach and/or live nowhere near a track.

Im sure that many here would agree with me that your car is badass..

[69rs]

A less streetable car would be great....if I could have two or more cars! I would love to have a car to run at Road Atlanta every weekend, but since I can only (barely) afford one, it needs to be something I can drive comfortably on the street.