Protouring Poll

[Steve Chryssos]

How about "pro-touring is what you make of it"

How 'bout if Popular Hot Rodding did some ink that highlights trends in pro-touring. It might reference The Mule on one end as being "as desirable and comfortable as your new car", and cars like your 68 at the other end (the mean and nasty end).

Try to focus on the parts and their usage. Don't get hung up on whether or not cars will be "shown" or raced. It would be a good time to explore everything from weld-in Art Morrison full chassis kits to bolt-in custom gauge housings from Covan Classics.

There is something for everyone. The show car crowd might lean towards 22's and "bags" while the streetfighter set might prefer rollcages and weight reduction. Pro-touring traditionalists might focus on modern upgrades, and the g-machine types might emphasize "bolt-on" capability. And--by all means--clarify that there are no rules--just trends. John Parsons II Much shows elements of each subset can be incorporated into one car. It looks mean, but will comfortably and reliably transport his family to and from a car show or track day.

The best way to further pro-touring is by showcasing its flexibility and diversity to PHR readers.

[HatTrick]

drives it like an ill-respected, stolen, rental car,

Pro-G-poser-touring-machine-fighter it is then!

Ausome quotes! I think I need to see the T-Shirt/Bumper sticker vendor.

[Pro69]

bill , i would haft to say 2 or3 . my camaro is the cover car on the nov 04 popular hot rodding . i al so did some isca shows and won the west divison class champinn for 2005 . the class was late street machine coustom .i am a long hauler for 2003 - 04 hot rod power. and have been in several other mags as well . the car is well done . an there is not another 70 - 73 camaro like it . to see my car take a look at www.martzchassis.net


thanks rick kirkindall

OMG! I remember reading about this car! Totally blew me away! I can remember building a model of it, not with all the wiring but same colors and a roll cage out of an old stock car kit. Thanks for the car and the memories.

I like #'s 1 thru 3 about the best. My interior hasn't really been upgraded like I want, and I don't race at the track unless they give points for dirt tracking!

[Jagarang]

tract
(Science: anatomy) A region, principally one of some length, specifically a collection or bundle of nerve fibres having the same origin, function and termination (tractus) or a number of organs, arranged in series, subserving a common function.

[6'9"Witha69]

I just want to give each of the 4 my definitions:
1. Resto Mod
2. Trailer queen
3. Pro-Touring
4. G-Machine

[Salt Racer]

I have to ask. Why do you guys have to keep doing this? Why do you all try to redifine the term Pro Touring to make your car fit right in, after saying "Stuff you Hunkins, I build my car the way I like"? Does it really matter if your idea of car building isn't exactly along the line of Pro Touring?

I've had enough so I'll be brutally honest. I think the reason why crap like this keeps popping up is recent surge in number of "I-don't-wanna-scratch-my-car-on-tracks-but-I-have-to-have-over-engineered-suspension-and-brakes-so-I-get-respects-at-car-shows Pro Touring guys", and many of them are so freaking sensitive that they get offended, or at least disturbed, when they're called posers (or poseurs, take your pick) and feel they are left out. They keep beating on this stupid "definition" thing over and over again trying to defend themselves and change the definition of Pro Touring to their convenience, just so they and their cars fit right in.

If you see a guy driving around in a car with his surf board tied on roof, what would you call him? It depends on how he uses the surf board. If he never dips into the water and just uses the board to attract some chicks on a beach, You'll probably call him a poser. So what would you call a guy cruising on street in a car with track-ready suspension, brakes and tires? Depends on how he really uses his car, doesn't it?

JFYI, Whether you like it or not, this is THE ORIGINAL definition of Pro Touring, spelled out by Jeff Smith in April '98 issue of Chevy High.

On the cover-
!!EXCLUSIVE!! Pro-Touring. What is it? Why you'll love it!

Inside:
FAST TALK
What is Pro Touring?
Pro-Touring is a 10-mile length of canyon road with no opposing traffic.
Pro Touring is an as-far-as-the-eye-can-see stretch of Montana Freeway, a full tank of gas, and overdrive transmission, and a tail wind.
Pro Touring is being proud of those rock chips all over your lower control arms.
Pro Touring is driving up the coast of California on a summer day with a stout small-block under the hood, a great-handling car, and your favorite lady by your side.
Pro Touring is being proud of your Bonderant-taught skill of the heel-and-toe-double-clutch-downshift technique.
Pro Touring is knowing what a Bonderant-taught skill of the heel-and-toe-double-clutch-downshift is and how to do it.
Pro Touring is knowing you apexed that corner better than you ever have before.
Pro Touring is entering that same corner a little bit faster the next time, just to see if you can.
Pro Touring is constantly looking for an excuse to demonstrate how your Baer-braked Camaro can rearrange your passenger's internal organs with a massive dose of deceleration.
Pro Touring is knowing you can dust that smug clown in the Porsche in any number of different ways without even braking a sweat.
Pro Touring is calling the Pony Express 100 for an entry form.
Pro Touring means having to constantly answer the question, "How did you make those monster tires fit?"
Pro Touring is knowing you'll need a killer oil cooler.
Pro Touring is a heck of a lot more seat time than drag racing.
Pro Touring is scouting the road race pits for ideas for your street car.
Pro Touring is wishing you had a dry sump because the high lateral g's are literally making the oil climb the walls of the oil pan.
Pro Touring is wondering what aerodynamic tricks will be needed to push a '67 Camaro to 200 mph.
Pro Touring is all the right reasons for building brake ducts on your early Nova street car. Pro Touring is making those mods to your own '67 Camaro to see what happens to an early Camaro at 175 mph.
Pro Touring is so cool that Tommy Kendall wants to drive your car!
Pro Touring is a good excuse not to go straight.
Pro Touring is power steering, power brakes, and A/C for all the right reasons.
Pro Touring is spending more time enjoying your car than working on it.
Pro Touring is just plain fun.

IIRC, the term "Touring" in Pro Touring was derived from RACING series such as BTCC, which was also outlined in some other issue (or maybe the same issus) of Chevy High. Most of so-called fore runners of PT cars (Stielow white Camaro, Gottlieb's Big Red, Jeff Smith's Chevelle, Doug Brocker's Chevy PU, etc) were flogged on tracks.

Is my Riviera a PT car? Maybe yes if you ask people who got in on PT bandwagon back then despite the lack of stuff like radio and A/C, while the others (becoming majority these days) would probably say no. No pretty paint job, only 400hp or so at flywheel, no overdrive tranny, rusty suspension pieces with noisy heim ends everywhere, homebrew cheap-ass disc brakes instead of kewl brand B brakes, and it's not a Camaro or a Chevelle.

Do I care? Nope. Do I feel that I'm compelled trying to change the definition of Pro Touring just so that my car would fit in? Fu(k no, I don't feel the need to belong in the group of latest trend, and I love my car the way it is regardless of how others define it.

I don't give a fu(king fu(k what category my car falls into, b/c I'm building my car to my liking within my budget, much like how you guys claim that's what you are/should be doing. If you don't feel the same way, you obviously aren't building your car the way you really like, whether you realize it or not. You obviously are concerned what others think of you and your car. Otherwise you wouldn't have to ask questions like "what is Pro Touring?" in the first place, and that is precisely why you get offended by "no track time = poser-touring" comments.

I beat the crap out of my car on tracks at time trial events, but I am a poser, or a wanna-be racer at best, from the eyes of real wheel-to-wheel racers. Do I get offended if those guys call me a wanna-be? No, b/c that is a fact. And instead of bitching and whining, trying to convince real racers that time trial guys are equal to them, I work towards becoming a real wheel-to-wheel racer myself.

I long for the good 'ol days, like 3 years ago when almost everyone on this board were psyched about getting their projects on road and the tracks. It was really good while it lasted. You should see what people are saying about "Pro Touring guys" on other message boards these days.

I guess it's really time for me to move on. I'm outta here. So long.

[Steve Chryssos]

Katz,
I'd say your car is more of a g-Machine.

[USAZR1]

Don't blow a gasket,Katz. Just a harmless discussion among bored P/T'ers. You're still The Man.

[dz502]

A lot of show cars are show cars while the parts and paint job are nice but when the age starts to show they shift to the 3rd category. Thats my plan

[WELTERRACER]

NUmber 3 for me also..

[Bill Howell]

I have to ask. Why do you guys have to keep doing this? Why do you all try to redifine the term Pro Touring to make your car fit right in, after saying "Stuff you Hunkins, I build my car the way I like"? Does it really matter if your idea of car building isn't exactly along the line of Pro Touring?

I've had enough so I'll be brutally honest. I think the reason why crap like this keeps popping up is recent surge in number of "I-don't-wanna-scratch-my-car-on-tracks-but-I-have-to-have-over-engineered-suspension-and-brakes-so-I-get-respects-at-car-shows Pro Touring guys", and many of them are so freaking sensitive that they get offended, or at least disturbed, when they're called posers (or poseurs, take your pick) and feel they are left out. They keep beating on this stupid "definition" thing over and over again trying to defend themselves and change the definition of Pro Touring to their convenience, just so they and their cars fit right in.

If you see a guy driving around in a car with his surf board tied on roof, what would you call him? It depends on how he uses the surf board. If he never dips into the water and just uses the board to attract some chicks on a beach, You'll probably call him a poser. So what would you call a guy cruising on street in a car with track-ready suspension, brakes and tires? Depends on how he really uses his car, doesn't it?

JFYI, Whether you like it or not, this is THE ORIGINAL definition of Pro Touring, spelled out by Jeff Smith in April '98 issue of Chevy High.



IIRC, the term "Touring" in Pro Touring was derived from RACING series such as BTCC, which was also outlined in some other issue (or maybe the same issus) of Chevy High. Most of so-called fore runners of PT cars (Stielow white Camaro, Gottlieb's Big Red, Jeff Smith's Chevelle, Doug Brocker's Chevy PU, etc) were flogged on tracks.

Is my Riviera a PT car? Maybe yes if you ask people who got in on PT bandwagon back then despite the lack of stuff like radio and A/C, while the others (becoming majority these days) would probably say no. No pretty paint job, only 400hp or so at flywheel, no overdrive tranny, rusty suspension pieces with noisy heim ends everywhere, homebrew cheap-ass disc brakes instead of kewl brand B brakes, and it's not a Camaro or a Chevelle.

Do I care? Nope. Do I feel that I'm compelled trying to change the definition of Pro Touring just so that my car would fit in? Fu(k no, I don't feel the need to belong in the group of latest trend, and I love my car the way it is regardless of how others define it.

I don't give a fu(king fu(k what category my car falls into, b/c I'm building my car to my liking within my budget, much like how you guys claim that's what you are/should be doing. If you don't feel the same way, you obviously aren't building your car the way you really like, whether you realize it or not. You obviously are concerned what others think of you and your car. Otherwise you wouldn't have to ask questions like "what is Pro Touring?" in the first place, and that is precisely why you get offended by "no track time = poser-touring" comments.

I beat the crap out of my car on tracks at time trial events, but I am a poser, or a wanna-be racer at best, from the eyes of real wheel-to-wheel racers. Do I get offended if those guys call me a wanna-be? No, b/c that is a fact. And instead of bitching and whining, trying to convince real racers that time trial guys are equal to them, I work towards becoming a real wheel-to-wheel racer myself.

I long for the good 'ol days, like 3 years ago when almost everyone on this board were psyched about getting their projects on road and the tracks. It was really good while it lasted. You should see what people are saying about "Pro Touring guys" on other message boards these days.

I guess it's really time for me to move on. I'm outta here. So long.

Dang Katz, who is being sensitive? Sorry I do not ask your permission to do this poll. I have no problem with being a poser in your eyes. The one thing I did not see in Jeff Smith's definition was track time.
Since 148 people have participated though, maybe the rest of us like the discussion. I voted for the first scenario,knowing it was not the mainstream answer, however, since it is my dime, I am doing it my way. This sport is about diversity as I understand it, not a dictatorship.
I think you know we all know how you feel about the subject anyway.

John P, Kevin and other, LOL. I can not spell.It was supposed to be TRACK.

I am in Baltimore Maryland for a few days and don't know how much time I will have for my addiction here. Anyway, until next time....
Bill aka Poser

[Stangonline.com]

I agree with most here. Its more than one of those items. When I think of a PT car, I think of a piece of art that is filled with modern technology and can outperform most anything on the road. Willing to sacrifice about 10% streetability. (so 90% streetable).

Jeff

[Stangonline.com]

I have to ask. Why do you guys have to keep doing this? Why do you all try to redifine the term Pro Touring to make your car fit right in, after saying "Stuff you Hunkins, I build my car the way I like"? Does it really matter if your idea of car building isn't exactly along the line of Pro Touring?

I've had enough so I'll be brutally honest. I think the reason why crap like this keeps popping up is recent surge in number of "I-don't-wanna-scratch-my-car-on-tracks-but-I-have-to-have-over-engineered-suspension-and-brakes-so-I-get-respects-at-car-shows Pro Touring guys", and many of them are so freaking sensitive that they get offended, or at least disturbed, when they're called posers (or poseurs, take your pick) and feel they are left out. They keep beating on this stupid "definition" thing over and over again trying to defend themselves and change the definition of Pro Touring to their convenience, just so they and their cars fit right in.

If you see a guy driving around in a car with his surf board tied on roof, what would you call him? It depends on how he uses the surf board. If he never dips into the water and just uses the board to attract some chicks on a beach, You'll probably call him a poser. So what would you call a guy cruising on street in a car with track-ready suspension, brakes and tires? Depends on how he really uses his car, doesn't it?

JFYI, Whether you like it or not, this is THE ORIGINAL definition of Pro Touring, spelled out by Jeff Smith in April '98 issue of Chevy High.



IIRC, the term "Touring" in Pro Touring was derived from RACING series such as BTCC, which was also outlined in some other issue (or maybe the same issus) of Chevy High. Most of so-called fore runners of PT cars (Stielow white Camaro, Gottlieb's Big Red, Jeff Smith's Chevelle, Doug Brocker's Chevy PU, etc) were flogged on tracks.

Is my Riviera a PT car? Maybe yes if you ask people who got in on PT bandwagon back then despite the lack of stuff like radio and A/C, while the others (becoming majority these days) would probably say no. No pretty paint job, only 400hp or so at flywheel, no overdrive tranny, rusty suspension pieces with noisy heim ends everywhere, homebrew cheap-ass disc brakes instead of kewl brand B brakes, and it's not a Camaro or a Chevelle.

Do I care? Nope. Do I feel that I'm compelled trying to change the definition of Pro Touring just so that my car would fit in? Fu(k no, I don't feel the need to belong in the group of latest trend, and I love my car the way it is regardless of how others define it.

I don't give a fu(king fu(k what category my car falls into, b/c I'm building my car to my liking within my budget, much like how you guys claim that's what you are/should be doing. If you don't feel the same way, you obviously aren't building your car the way you really like, whether you realize it or not. You obviously are concerned what others think of you and your car. Otherwise you wouldn't have to ask questions like "what is Pro Touring?" in the first place, and that is precisely why you get offended by "no track time = poser-touring" comments.

I beat the crap out of my car on tracks at time trial events, but I am a poser, or a wanna-be racer at best, from the eyes of real wheel-to-wheel racers. Do I get offended if those guys call me a wanna-be? No, b/c that is a fact. And instead of bitching and whining, trying to convince real racers that time trial guys are equal to them, I work towards becoming a real wheel-to-wheel racer myself.

I long for the good 'ol days, like 3 years ago when almost everyone on this board were psyched about getting their projects on road and the tracks. It was really good while it lasted. You should see what people are saying about "Pro Touring guys" on other message boards these days.

I guess it's really time for me to move on. I'm outta here. So long.

I enjoy my cars on the street. Isn't a big part of the HotRod hobby about overpowered, overengineered cars that we get to drive on the street? Some of us have a budget for a fun car that we can enjoy on weekends or whenever the sun is out. Many can not afford to race competitivley, or don't even care to based on the time and effort invested in our cars.

I think the fact that some (especially you) seem to be missing is that this is a HOBBY to most...not a career or a no-expense-spared attempt to run with the fastest in whatever racing class you enjoy. I doubt many here are waiting to race career drivers at their local track.

I haven't been here long, but based on your attitude... I'm glad I missed out on whatever time you were here. Good riddance..

Jeff

[ProdigyCustoms]

You should see what people are saying about "Pro Touring guys" on other message boards these days.

I guess it's really time for me to move on. I'm outta here. So long.

I may speak for many when I say, with that attude, don't let the door hit you in the ass on you way out!

I mean, really, who gives (in your words) A Fu(k what people on other message boards are saying?

[brianj5600]

And when did Webster die and leave definitions up to Jeff Smith?

[Steve1968LS2]

The best way to further pro-touring is by showcasing its flexibility and diversity to PHR readers.

Don't we do that already by showing a wide variety of cars from low buck cruisers to mega dollar rides?

In August we have a dedicated track car (biddles 68 Mustang) and we have the Hammer show car.. we have down a low $ Maverick that just sees the street and a truck arm equiped 69 that does high speed open road events.

I would think we are pretty diverse across the pro-touring spectrum.. Are you saying we need a scale? A g-ometer.. where the Mule is pegging a 10 and a stock car with TTII's on it is a 1??

Not like I have any pull but I am always curious to discuss this stuff

[Steve1968LS2]

Katz,
I'd say your car is more of a g-Machine.

Katz's car is the poster child for the g-Machine side of the spectrum.. Yours is what I see as a street fighter.. Malitude is a good pro-touring example..



Personally I get tired of the whole lable game.. takes the fun out of it to some degree but people seem to like to group things together..

[Steve1968LS2]

Caring about what people on other message boards is saying is as silly as caring what someone else is saying about YOUR car...

Besides.. this is the internet.. arn't we supposed to talk about stupid subjects on here?..

[steemin]

WOW!!
This thread took an ugly turn.

After owning a variety of classic muscle cars and late model performance type cars I asked myself:
"self why is it you do not keep a car more than a year or two?"
The answer was simple. I love the looks of classic cars but I can't live with the performance. And Vice versa with late model cars..
Then I ran across this site.
From the information I have gathered on this site I have developed a blueprint of what I really wanted in a car.
At no time have I ever felt that I had to conform to certain guidelines.
The beauty of this hobby is the diverse cross section of cars and people that are involved.
Trailer Queens,track whores, "posers", drivers etc..
I really don't care..
If you love cars you are okay with me..
Scott

[ZZ430]

I think was a good poll Bill, thanks, it was a learning experience.

I have never been one for putting lables on anything. I learned it still remains a hot topic.

For me, it's all about individual expression, and taking pride in whatever path you take.

In a perfect world, we each could build a version of all 4 of those choices.