First-Gen S10 Corner Carver

[dusterbd13]

i was truly hoping wed see more progress on this truck. and thank you for the detaild pictures and being honest about the problems with parts. wish someone had done that before i bought TTI's...

can you give me the specs on the fuel cell, and how are you going to do the fill? im looking at using a cell in my 88.

Michael

[HILROD]

Always like to see a truck! Great work.

[trapin]

Jerome forgive me if this has already been asked but are you planning to "box" the frame from the mid point to rear?

[jerome]

http://www.rciracing.com/pg02.htm

RCI 2172AD 17 Gallon 30Lx17Wx7H

For the price, the RCI tank is decent. Good welds, good powdercoat quality. Only thing is that it isn't like a fuel safe or other more expensive cell where there is a bladder. Its just an aluminum box. Also, I've noticed when building the cradle for it, that the bottoms and sides aren't perfectly flat, but actually bulged out a little in the middle. I suspect that this is true for all cells of these kind, which is why you need to support them with a cradle.

I am planning on hinging the taillight and having the gas cap behind the taillight. This would require cutting off the filler neck and welding on an elbow so it turns before hitting the bottom of the bed. How I'm gonna get it over the framerail and to the taillight i have no idea yet.

I'm not boxing the frame. Its a difficult decision, because it does help alot, but I think with all the crossmembers and the (possible) cage I will be putting in, it won't be necessary. The reasons why I'm not doing it:

1. frame is already powdercoated
2. weight
3. tons of crossmbers reinforcing the frame already.

that being said, If I were to do it all over again, I would box it before powdercoating.

Thanks for all the interest, my project is at home, and I am at college out of state for most of the year, which is why progress is so sporadic.

off to make brackets!

Jerome

[novanutcase]

But haven't you already burned througn part of the powdercoat already welding brackets? Why not just box it since you'll have to redo it?

John

[jerome]

heated plate and bent to fit bottom of framerail to make baseplate of PHB mount. First time bending something like this, got it to fit pretty well, 3/16" plate.


cut a groove to reweld plate flush with framerail



bracket welded up. First time that I've been really happy with welds that i've produced...Its about time!

second pic showing the curve in the bracket to fit the framerail


bracket drilled and in place...2x2 tube shown below will be welded to it and braced to the other framerail. I'm making an adjusting link mount to fit on the 2x2 tube. Won't divulge the details yet, but hopefully it will be screw adjusting.






making lower link bracket...gotta drill out the line parallel to the edge cause the angle grinder can't make those cuts


tacked in


looking where the lower link will go

John,
You're probably right about the powdercoating. I'm gonna look into how much boxing the frame will help torsionally. (I don't think I need much help in the "pitch" direction) I remember reading a suspension book showing models and how beefier longitudal members don't add much torsional strength, but a cage does. Basically the reinforcement needs to be out of the plane of the frame. You can twist a ladder but not a box.

I won't argue that it won't help some though, and I'm seriously considering it now, thanks for the encouragement...its just a big pain to box it. I also don't know how to treat areas like the crossmember I welded the upper link mount to...can't box that area without cutting it out and rewelding it.

If this is too much detail and pictures, please let me know. I'm in the mindset of designing and building this thing, so these detail pics are what interest me, but its probably pretty dry

Jerome

[novanutcase]

Oh trust me! The more pics the better! I, as many on here, love to see how the build up is coming along. Keep at it Bro!

John

[greencactus3]

+1 for boxing the frame.
thats double the stock walls in the y-z plane
it should help pitch,
it will bring the frequency of the frame up

[jerome]

http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/chassis.pdf
GM best practices manual for aftermarket outfitters.

I just read that, specifically the part about reinforcing frames, there's some interesting things said in there:

"Continuous fillet welds should never be made across frame flanges or along their inside edges." --did that already

"Do not weld within 19 mm (0.75 in.) of the edge of a frame flange." --did that already

"To prevent localized stress concentration, reinforcements must be properly terminated. Reinforcement ends must be tapered or stress relieved. Tapers should not exceed 45 degrees." --I should do that

I guess frame plates, if terminated should look like fishmouths to not have the stress concentrated at the corner of the rectangular plate.

[formula98]

Great post! I just spent the last hr to 2 hrs reading through. Nice work and nice to see some one going through the book and understanding what he is doing. Keep up the great work!

[HectorM52]

Jerome - I'm in the same boat you are. I have powdercoated my frame and don't want to screw it up (anymore than I already have).

However, having my truck together already, I can tell you that you NEED to do something with the frame. It really does get enough torsional twist action to affect you.

I also am concerned about the weight issue - so I've been thinking... What about welding "strips" across the c-channel frame section? I'm probably going to have to build some sort of model in order to test the effects of twisting the c-channel frame... I'm thinking back to my days in my "structures" classes where we designed trusses. If you put something kind of "diagonal" across the "open" part of the 'C' - you will want to directly brace against the effects of the twist/torsion. You following me?

Essentially, instead of boxing in the frame, you specifically figure out what happens to the frame under stress, then brace ONLY against that!! You could weld some rods in there. Or strips of metal.


Anyway, just something to think about since you're RIGHT THERE with the truck not finished up.

If you didn't follow any of that, sorry for the thread hijack.

[jerome]

Thanks for the real-world advice. What signs are you getting that you have torsional twist?

I was thinking about the diagonals this morning, and I would be worried about all the stress concentrations when welding directly to the tip of the C. Each strip would create 4 points of stress concentration. When the frame flexes (doesn't matter what you do...it will) all the stress will be directed to the points where you don't box. So if I were to box it, I couldn't leave any gaps.

Thanks for the advice everyone...looks like the consensus is that it should be boxed. I need to figure out how to get around the riveted-in crossmember. Either that or commit to having a cage with rear downbars.

I'll get a pic of how GM made the end of the boxed portion...they took making a stress-relieved area pretty seriously

[greencactus3]

cage would obviously be more efficient than boxing, but is a bit more work. if you can fit it in, go for it!

[dhondagod]

I vote cage/downbars. Geometrically stronger/better and lighter than boxing.

Plus you get the added benifit of additional driver protection in the event of an accident.

Chris

[HectorM52]

What signs are you getting that you have torsional twist?

Ummm... To be honest I don't "know" that my problem is frame-tweak / twist. But I just have this sneaking suspicion that it is partly to blame for my rear end issues.

Specifically, when making a hard right-hand turn and trying to accellerate hard out of the corner, the right-rear wheel will spin with nearly NO traction.

The Belltech drop springs are VERY stiff. Couple that with my VERY stiff shocks. I KNOW that the rear end isn't getting all that "out of plane" in order to "lift" off the ground. So I'm thinking it HAS to be the frame just allowing a little bit more twist therefore allowing the rear end to also twist.

Make sense?

I'm thinking a stiffer frame would help cure my problem - if not completely cure the problem, period.

[jerome]

Ummm... To be honest I don't "know" that my problem is frame-tweak / twist. But I just have this sneaking suspicion that it is partly to blame for my rear end issues.

Specifically, when making a hard right-hand turn and trying to accellerate hard out of the corner, the right-rear wheel will spin with nearly NO traction.

The Belltech drop springs are VERY stiff. Couple that with my VERY stiff shocks. I KNOW that the rear end isn't getting all that "out of plane" in order to "lift" off the ground. So I'm thinking it HAS to be the frame just allowing a little bit more twist therefore allowing the rear end to also twist.

Make sense?

I'm thinking a stiffer frame would help cure my problem - if not completely cure the problem, period.

The right rear wheel in a right-turn has the least possible traction. Weight transfers to the outside wheel (left), so the right is already unloaded. Combine that with the counterclockwise rotation of the driveshaft (looking forwards at the engine) pushing the left into the ground and pulling the right wheel up, you have wheelspin on the right tire.

You're probably right about frame twist having some effect on the suspension though.

Chris,
I'm not so sure about the cage being lighter, but it will definitely have more of an effect. I will definitely have at least a roll bar in there so I can mount harnesses, and a cage is only 3 bars or so away right?

[greencactus3]

I'm not so sure about the cage being lighter, but it will definitely have more of an effect. I will definitely have at least a roll bar in there so I can mount harnesses, and a cage is only 3 bars or so away right?

less mass per % increase in rigidity in all axes.
im not sure how you count bars in roll cages, but bare minimum for stiffness, i would do
main hoop, ,
diagonal in the plane of main roll hoop,
diagonal forwards down (across the door sill)
and the rear diagonal bars to stiffen the underbed frame

[jerome]

Reclocked alternator case so the stud doesn't hit the valve cover


Welded-in a crossmember for coilover mounts




Welded-in sleeves for panhard bar mount so it doesn't crush the section when you torque the bolts


had to rework the chassis-side upper link mount because I made a mistake. front suspension was 2" too high because springs were unloaded, so I leveled the frame knowing the rear was 2" too high. However, I made the chassis-side link brackets forgetting this fact, so their range of adjustment is 2" too low.

should have some better updates end of the weeked. going to pick up my rearend from the welder tomorrow. I cut off the top portion of the panhard bracket and had him weld it lower. He also is welding on swaybar tabs and making the panhard bar. Ordered materials for the actual 3 links, should be done late next week. Exhaust materials coming in on Friday. The goal is to get everything under the cab done quickly so I can get it on and start mounting pedals/column, seat, wiring etc. That way I can possibly drive it before summer is over.

Jerome

[dusterbd13]

making good progress, jerome. youre going to need to re-powdercoat the frame anyway at this point, so are you thinking about boxing it?

and im looking forward to seeing the three link done and also seeing how it clears the bed.


keep at it!
Michael

[HectorM52]

making good progress, jerome. youre going to need to re-powdercoat the frame anyway at this point, so are you thinking about boxing it?

:werd:

And let me just re-iterate to you how much you will NOT want to be yanking the cab back off the frame once it is up and running. Trust me, get it done now.