RTH2 Results Are In!

[andrewb70]

That's the sort of question I'd like to see more of in this thread. The answer here is yes. The two air ride Chevy's, my car and the DSE car all had very similar small blocks. In fact, the two air ride Chevy cars have the exact same spec engine--carburetor and all. The Air Ride Buick has more power and torque from a custom built engine, but also quite a bit more heft. The 71Z is a fairly heavy car as well.

I edited the top ten list to include my weight and rwhp. If anyone knows more specific numbers for any of the other cars, I can update the list.

Andrew

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve,
Thanks for the information! Is someone going to list all of the times run this weekend? Congrats on your 3rd place

Thanks, but my third place Camaro Challenge finish drops to 7th overall when you factor in the cone penalty. We did not get a clean 63 second run. We stopped running the car. I climbed underneath to adjust my rear shocks and found gear oil had spewed from the vent hose. That wouldn't be a big deal except for the fact that the dumb-ass who built the car (me) had aimed the vent hose DIRECTLY at the driver's side rear wheel and brake caliper!! The brake pad was covered with oil. I was happy with the time, so I parked it.



Wouldnt look right If I won my own show anyway. But Tony says it's a solid 63 second car--automatic and all, so I'm happy. Next year I'll bring two sets of tires and some adjustable front stay-bars. I want my car to run a 61. That is what Tony Bolton will pull in his relatively stock Mustang after 100's of runs.

[Damn True]

What was the tire differential between the three?

[ilovefirstgens]

Damn, im really dissapointed prodigy didnt make it to the autox, it would have been interesting to see the times despite it being a vert.

And what does "stcky tires" entail, full blown slicks, dot comp tires what?

Im a bit dissapointed there is a over 6 second gap between a z06 and something like the dse Camaro...

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn, im really dissapointed prodigy didnt make it to the autox, it would have been interesting to see the times despite it being a vert.

And what does "stcky tires" entail, full blown slicks, dot comp tires what?

Im a bit dissapointed there is a over 6 second gap between a z06 and something like the dse Camaro...

The Z06 was running Hoosier RACE tires (slicks, not street legal), had a driver that KNEW the track and well.. was a Z06.. lol

Kyle had radial DOT street tires and was a newbie at the track.. I doubt he has driven on many figure 8 banked auto-x tracks.. lol (who has besides the locals??)

All the top guys should be VERY proud of thier cars.. this wasn't an easy track..

[Steve Chryssos]

What was the tire differential between the three?

Camaro Challenge?
1st Place: Michelin Pilot Sports 275/335
2nd Place: B.F. Goodrich KD Sport 245/275
3rd Place: Nitto NT555 255/285

Kyle's car suffered some front wheel lock up at the limit. Could be a brake bias issue; Could be those monster 335's don't "slip" enough to get the car turning. Could be both. On runs where Tony and Kyle backed off on the brakes a tad, the car turned better. The tires could handle more speed.

[Tony Bolton]

The 1st place Z06 was an "MTi Prepared car" car(big Corvetter hopper-upper place I believe). I'm not 100% on some of the stuff, but I do know it has a fully adjustable suspension(i'm wanting to say MOTON's?), rear gear upgrade, a 383 stroker motor(450-ish WHP), and a killer set of Wilwood brakes.

The tires are D.O.T. tires, about like a "drag radial" is. They are Hoosier A6's, mounted on OE Z06 rims(315's and 335's I believe).

What created the large gap was the fact that the cars from here were running your typical street tire. Albeit a great tire, but nothing on the level of a full autocross tire.

At that course, a highly prepared car(like the ones brought down)could benefit as much as 4 to 5 full seconds on a set of equal tires to the Z06.

A big part of that kind of tire not only applies to the cornering grip, but also the braking grip. I found myself skipping the tire on a few of the cars going into the braking zones.

Not taking anything away from Shawn(Z06 driver), he's on a pretty high level when it comes to driving ability. I told Steve if the TWIST MACHINE was running same tires, only R-compound's, I could've put that car in the 59's no problem......58's on a last run/final attempt.

Tire really make a difference there. I know Shawn went from 62 seconds on a lesser tire, to his current mid 57's just by switching tires.

[Damn True]

Impressive stuff.

Steve, did you have an auto-x sort of alignment on the car? I.E. 0 toe if not some positive toe etc.

[Steve1968LS2]

Were those tires shaved? I though you had to have SOME grooves to be a real DOT street tire.. lol

I would love to see the DSE or other top finisher run the track on the same tires as the Z06.. bet it would knock a bit off ;)

[Steve Chryssos]

Impressive stuff.

Steve, did you have an auto-x sort of alignment on the car? I.E. 0 toe if not some positive toe etc.

ALWAYS.

[trapin]

I have a couple questions, did anyone participate in the autoX event in a first gen with a stock subframe? If so, did Tony drive that and how did it fare? Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

[novanutcase]

Hmmmmmm........Air-Ride huh??!!!? Maybe I will look into this seeing as how they seem to have gotten their product down and obviously the numbers are proving this.

[Tony Bolton]

Were those tires shaved? I though you had to have SOME grooves to be a real DOT street tire.. lol

I would love to see the DSE or other top finisher run the track on the same tires as the Z06.. bet it would knock a bit off ;)

It's got a couple grooves in it, just like the Kumho V710 tires I run. Tires don't need to be shaved, but they do need to be heat cycled(think rolled on a hot drum to allow the rubber to expand and reform to establish grip and shape). My car(that 240hp Mustang)has run that course at 61.01 seconds, best of. I did some exhibition/demonstration runs in my car on a GREAT street tire and was running like high 63's or low 64's. Now, my car probably has THE LEAST hp of any car there, and thanks to just a set of sticky tires, i'm able to mix it up with greater cars. The tire type is even more of a factor on higher prepared machines. Just imagine John Forces top fuel funny car if it had some BFG KDW's or something on it!!!

[BonzoHansen]

Nice reviews guys. Sounds like fun.

This reminds me of something an 'old-timer' told me: Brakes don't stop the car, they only stop the wheel. The tires stop the car. Only the tires touch the road.

[Steve Chryssos]

I have a couple questions, did anyone participate in the autoX event in a first gen with a stock subframe? If so, did Tony drive that and how did it fare? Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

None of the stock clip cars ran sub 70 second times. The exception is the Nova--which is comparable to an F-body. It crashed, so there was no chance for Tony to run that car. It had full blown level 3 DSE suspension. Maybe Tony could have pulled a 63 if he had the cnahce to run it. Steve Moore left early, Jason Huber had to leave so early that he never ran, and David Sloan passed on having Tony drive his car.
Given a low estimate, Tony was able to shave 6 seconds off of every car (except Kyle who actually knows how to drive). David Sloan's car went 73.544 which means that Tony probably could have pulled a 66 or 67 out of it. Trust me--If Bill's hefty 81 Malibu can pull a 66.788 on skinny tires, your Camaro can do it. The stock clip cars work fine.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE LEARNED AT RTH2 FOLKS
Tires and driver. Say it with me peoples. Tires and driver. Beyond that, Pro-Touring cars and and pro-touring parts are fairly equal. On street tires, the difference between all of our cars is a second here or there on the AxH track. And on the street, the distinction is downright negligible. Buy what you like and can afford.

p.s. If you want to run a sub 65 at next year's AutoX from Hell, you had better bring minimum R compound street tires and some real safety gear or you might crash and get hurt. I'm not kidding. Otherwise plan on running a 65-plus. You'll have a blast.

[trapin]

What's really amazing is how well that air ride Tech stuff does in competition. I'm very impressed. Thanks for all the great feedback.

[Steve Chryssos]

Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

All the cars had comparable power. A big power car would have crashed and burned. If it was lucky enough to not crash and burn, we would have probably kicked it off the track for being uncontrollable. I think the most powerful car there was the yellow second gen. This car beat the 'cuda at the G-G Nashville AutoX. Just as he was starting to really scare us, his ignition quit.

Big power and walls do not go well together. Just watch the video in the link below. Wave at your computer when you hear the beep.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90595776&hl=en

[JEFFTATE]

Yes! Tires and experience make a big difference .
I couldn't agree more.
How can we get even more autocross time next year ?
Maybe a whole weekend autocross event ?

[Damn True]

In the meantime: http://www.scca.org/Solo/Solo.asp?IdS=01ECF8-1E141B0&x=050|010&~=

[Steve Chryssos]

Yes! Tires and experience make a big difference .
I couldn't agree more.
How can we get even more autocross time next year ?
Maybe a whole weekend autocross event ?

We're thinkin about it Jeff. The alternatives are to swap days and do drag racing on Sunday--OR--rent the whole joint for the weekend and let people go from one track to the other as they wish. But I GUESSTIMATE that securing the track for the entire weekend would jack the entry fees from $10 to $100-plus. If that's the case, we'll make sure you get your money's worth with racing and live music n food at the track in the evening. Booze would probably be outlawed for safety reasons. Can't have people racing with a buzz or worse.