Keisler Engineering - T56 Magnum Problem

[brgarris]

Received my T56 magnum transmission in mid 2012 to begin mock-up for a pro-touring 1969 camaro that I am currently building. Followed all the instruction Keisler provided, coupled it to my engine and mocked everything up in the car before paint. Removed engine/tranny, slicked firewall and jammed out car before reinstalling and final assembly of front end. Got her painted and assembled and starting the resotration completion process. Went to a car show where Keisler Engineering was present, introduced myself and told them how I appreciate all the help they provided along the way....then the news. I was told that they sold me the wrong bell housing and I did not have enough engagement between the input shaft and pilot bearing. Apparently you need to have at least 0.400" of engagement and I only had around 0.200" with the current bell housing. Needless to say I had to transport the car back to a shop and pay to have the tranny removed so that the bell housing could be sent back to Keisler and be machined. I told the owner that we would have to do something because I did not see how it was fair that I pay for someone elses mistake. The mistake was blamed on a worker that was "new" to their job. After machining ~0.200" from the bell housing and sending it back to me, Keisler will not even return my phone calls. I have sent countless emails and left messages and NOBODY has called me back. So much for being for the customer I guess. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced poor customer service with Keisler Engineering? Due to these modifications all I want to know is 1) will the new setup work and last, 2) how is it not fair for the company to at least split the removal/reinstallation bill with me and 3) can I at least get an extended warranty on the transmission?

Maybe I am worrying over nothing, but I appreciate good customer service and I sure as heck am not receiving it.

[andrewb70]

Received my T56 magnum transmission in mid 2012 to begin mock-up for a pro-touring 1969 camaro that I am currently building. Followed all the instruction Keisler provided, coupled it to my engine and mocked everything up in the car before paint. Removed engine/tranny, slicked firewall and jammed out car before reinstalling and final assembly of front end. Got her painted and assembled and starting the resotration completion process. Went to a car show where Keisler Engineering was present, introduced myself and told them how I appreciate all the help they provided along the way....then the news. I was told that they sold me the wrong bell housing and I did not have enough engagement between the input shaft and pilot bearing. Apparently you need to have at least 0.400" of engagement and I only had around 0.200" with the current bell housing. Needless to say I had to transport the car back to a shop and pay to have the tranny removed so that the bell housing could be sent back to Keisler and be machined. I told the owner that we would have to do something because I did not see how it was fair that I pay for someone elses mistake. The mistake was blamed on a worker that was "new" to their job. After machining ~0.200" from the bell housing and sending it back to me, Keisler will not even return my phone calls. I have sent countless emails and left messages and NOBODY has called me back. So much for being for the customer I guess. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced poor customer service with Keisler Engineering? Due to these modifications all I want to know is 1) will the new setup work and last, 2) how is it not fair for the company to at least split the removal/reinstallation bill with me and 3) can I at least get an extended warranty on the transmission?

Maybe I am worrying over nothing, but I appreciate good customer service and I sure as heck am not receiving it.

Honestly, in the performance aftermarket business, that is about as good as you will find. They caught the mistake before it caused other issues, they got you the correct part, what else do you want?

If you had purchased a part from Napa, installed it, then Napa calls you and tells you they sold you the wrong part, would you expect them to foot the bill for removing that part?

As far as extended warranties, if you look around, you won't find any companies that offer warranties on performance parts.

On the bright side, by all accounts the Magnum is a good transmission and you should have years of service from it.

Andrew

[gsxrken]

Andrew, while you are perhaps technically correct, exceptional customer service is about exceeding customer expectations. I have gathered from this post and others that Keisler doesn't do that, and having never used them I don't have one bone to pick with them... But that's their brand in my mind's eye.
This is a missed opportunity on their part to make lemonade of out a lemon.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, while you are perhaps technically correct, exceptional customer service is about exceeding customer expectations. I have gathered from this post and others that Keisler doesn't do that, and having never used them I don't have one bone to pick with them... But that's their brand in my mind's eye.
This is a missed opportunity on their part to make lemonade of out a lemon.

First off, yes you are correct in that exceptional (whatever that means) is about exceeding customer expectations (again, very subjective). In fact, the definition of satisfaction is, the difference between expectations and the actual experience. It seems that the OP is expecting a minimum of splitting the difference on the labor charge to replace the bellhousing. I would argue that this expectation is unrealistic. I guarantee you that not a single vendor listed on the right is going to do that.

It is also completely unfair to judge this particular transaction based on vague "perception of the brand." In essence, what your saying is, that Keisler needs to go over and beyond what by all accounts was a good, solid transaction, to overcome their somewhat spotty image. That's hardly fair. Call up DSE and ask them if they will do that. Here is a link to their terms:

http://detroitspeed.com/terms.html

I am only picking on DSE because they probably have one of best reputations in the business (as far as I can tell).

Andrew

[TheJDMan]

Well I have a DSE story that is relavent to this discussion. I installed my DSE subframe approximately 2 years ago. Started driving the car in April 2012. I called DSE early in 2013 simply to ask a technical question. After some back and forth discussion with the tech he became concerned about some of the sway bar parts that came with my subframe. Turns out that DSE had some issues with the stamped sway bar arms and had switched to a forged arm. The net result was that DSE swapped out my sway bar arms at no cost and without me asking. DSE has a solid reputation for quality products and support, and this is just one example of why. THAT is what I consider exceeding customer expectations.

[andrewb70]

Well I have a DSE story that is relavent to this discussion about exceeding customer expectations. I installed my DSE subframe approximately 1 1/2 years ago. Started driving the car in April 2012. I called DSE early in 2013 simply to ask a technical question. After some back and forth discussion with the tech he became concerned about some of the sway bar parts that came with my subframe. Turns out that DSE had some issues with the stamped sway bar arms and had switched to a forged arm. The net result was that DSE swapped out my sway bar arms at no cost and without me asking. DSE has a solid reputation for quality products and support, and this is just one example of why.

Sounds exactly like what Keisler did for the original poster, doesn't it?

Did DSE offer to pay for a shop to swap out the parts for you?

Andrew

[TheJDMan]

I don't use any shop, I do my own work, and they still return my calls and emails!!!!

[andrewb70]

I don't use any shop, I do my own work, and they still return my calls and emails!!!!

I understand, many of us don't.

But you didn't really answer the question that I asked.

Andrew

[tandk22]

I have had constant problems with new parts and quality control. Seems pretty poor out there. New tranny with issues new axles with run out exc. You don't seem to get much customer service and the sheer cost of having to remove parts ship them back gets expensive. My 2 cents.

[Mr Nick]

I received a defective RS600 from Keisler, wouldn't go into 5th. Shafi Kesiler told me they would cover the expense to get the transmission back to them for inspection/repairs. I specifically stated in an email to him, and a few of his employees, something along the lines of: "I assume that will cover labor to R&R the trans?" Because of course I can't get it back to them while it's in the car. Nobody replied to that email, how ironic. Once the trans was returned and installed, I forwarded them the bill to reimburse me for the labor. Only THEN did they reply and tell me they wouldn't cover the labor. They did cover shipping on the trans both way, which I expected. But the $500+ plus labor bill to remove the trans they admitted was defective really pissed me off. I will say that Kesiler refunded me a small portion of that bill, which I do appreciate. But it's small potatoes compared to the huge pain in the ass of having to bring the car back to the shop, set up a ride home, wait for the work, get another ride back to the shop, etc.

They could have just told me straight up they weren't going to pay for the labor charges. Instead it was all finger pointing. Even the lady that issued the refund told me on the phone, 'sorry this took so long it just landed on my desk today.'

Maybe I have a bad taste in my mouth after the whole 9 month back order and lack of communication to get the RS600 in the first place. Or maybe its because they sent the wrong crank pilot bearing for my Oldsmobile and I had to pay for another. Or that 5th gear didn't work. Or maybe beacue I was told the trans had a reverse lock out, and it doesn't. I'm just getting warmed up...

For any future larger projects I'm only using authorized installers, so if there is any issues it's between them and the parts manufacturer, not me.

[brgarris]

Andrew, there is a huge difference in removing a sway bar from a car and removing an entire transmission/bellhousing combo from a custom car that was built around the power train. When you are building a $100K+ project you dont want to go dropping the drivetrain out risking scratching a $20K paint job etc. Hopefully that is understandable.

I did get in touch with Shafi and they did pay my shipping, repairs to the bell housing and shipment back. Furthermore, he did say he would try to do something else for me which I have not seen yet.

Regardless, people/customers are putting LS transplants into their hotrods left and right. The specific drive train should work in each and every 1969 camaro and should not be car specific....the engine/tranny combo will NEVER be that way. So in my eyes if you operate a business and advertise that what you are selling a customer will fit a specific car...well it better darn fit. My situation was a technical error due to a "new" employee, not a flawed part like the DSE example......HUGE difference.

[EFI69Cam]

Well I have a DSE story that is relavent to this discussion. I installed my DSE subframe approximately 2 years ago. Started driving the car in April 2012. I called DSE early in 2013 simply to ask a technical question. After some back and forth discussion with the tech he became concerned about some of the sway bar parts that came with my subframe. Turns out that DSE had some issues with the stamped sway bar arms and had switched to a forged arm. The net result was that DSE swapped out my sway bar arms at no cost and without me asking. DSE has a solid reputation for quality products and support, and this is just one example of why. THAT is what I consider exceeding customer expectations.

Did DSE indicate what the problems with the stamped arms were? My frame is probably 3 years old and has the stamped arms. I've never driven the car with it since the project is taking a lot longer than I planned.