Wilwood Caliper Alignment

[sjaroslo]

Just ordered up these brackets from my friendly neighborhood Courtesy Chevrolet, will take a few days to arrive (assuming that they can get their computer systems and phones back up in time to place an order today!). Spoke to Kevin at Art Morrison and he is going to ask around a little as well. Thanks again for all of the great advice and I'll close this thread out once the parts have arrived and have been installed.

[Jay@GMR]

Steve,

Sounds like you got it handled/ordered, but figured I would post this for others in the future as an alternative.


We had a client that needed to push his wheels out just a little on his C5/6 suspended Camaro due to his tire rubbing. He only needed to move his wheel outward just a little over an 1/8" inch. So we suggested spacing out his hub instead of using a wheel spacer (not to mention he could not find an 1/8" wheel spacer). So with no 1/8" wheel spacers on the market, he told us to go ahead and come up with a fix. So we did. After cutting them to shape we had them Blanchard Ground to ensure precise thickness throughout the piece and coupled them with 12.9 coated hardware.

We will release the final info and price soon (although probably $125ish w/hardware)......... but as you can see in this picture, it will include new coated 12.9 hardware to compensate for the spacer thickness. Also will come with new caliper bolts and spacers.

So if you need to push your wheel and or rotor outward by just over an 1/8".......... give us a call!


Remove this X2.................................




Install this.........................................

[sjaroslo]

Beautiful stuff!

[sjaroslo]

So, I finally picked up the parts from Chevy today (they had to order them but never bothered to call me that they were in). So, I posted this over on Suspension but thought I would post it here, too, since I'm not getting a lot of love over there yet:

I have a 67 Camaro with an Art Morrison front subframe and suspension, which is Corvette C6 stuff using coilovers. I need to partially disassemble the front end to install some shims/spacers between the hub and the upright (I have a thread on the reason in the Disc Brakes forum). In order to be able to loosen the lower of the three socket head cap screws that attach the hub to the upright, it looks like I'll need to pop off the lower ball joint from the upright, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to get a wrench on it. So that brings up a few questions:

In a conventional (from the sixties) Chevy front suspension, you need to be very careful when separating the ball joint because of the energy stored in the coil spring--it can be dangerous. It seems to me that this is not the case with a coilover? The spring is retained on the shock body and the explosive release of that energy is not the same concern? Or am I wrong?

#2, is the "pickle fork" or the heavy hammer to the casting still the preferred method for breaking the ball joint loose on this suspension set up? Or is there something more advanced available now? I suspect that the ball joint still uses the same tapered housing into the tapered hole from the old days?

I appreciate any direction or tips & tricks that can be offered. Thank you.

1 step forward, three steps back.... But I feel good about including these and getting the rotors/calipers SPOT ON.

[dontlifttoshift]

All of the spring force is contained by the shock in a coilover application.....it will not explode and hit you in the face if you take the ball joint apart.

Pickle fork is almost guaranteed to tear the boot on the ball joint. it can be tough to get them apart now that you don't have the spring force to help push it apart.

I like the two hammer method. One hammer placed on the spindle and another hammer to hit the first hammer with. Somebody sells a "jack" that is double threaded with left/right threads and will spread the ball joints apart.

[jpgolf14]

I have a 67 Camaro with an Art Morrison front subframe and suspension, which is Corvette C6 stuff using coilovers. I need to partially disassemble the front end to install some shims/spacers between the hub and the upright (I have a thread on the reason in the Disc Brakes forum). In order to be able to loosen the lower of the three socket head cap screws that attach the hub to the upright, it looks like I'll need to pop off the lower ball joint from the upright, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to get a wrench on it. So that brings up a few questions:

What if you got the correct size allen wrench (L shaped hand tool) and cut it down just after the 90 degree bend, would it fit then?

I love socket head cap screws as much as the next guy, but maybe a hex head or my personal favorite 12pt head would be a better choice. Could you remove the bolt if it was a hex or 12pt without separating the ball joint? If so I would replace the cap screw. You never know when you will have to take this apart again.

In a conventional (from the sixties) Chevy front suspension, you need to be very careful when separating the ball joint because of the energy stored in the coil spring--it can be dangerous. It seems to me that this is not the case with a coilover? The spring is retained on the shock body and the explosive release of that energy is not the same concern? Or am I wrong?

You are correct the coil over will retain the spring. However the upright will still be able to move around a bit, it just won't come free from the car. I would probably loosen the nut until its only on with 2-3 threads. Then use the pickle fork to loosen the press fit. That way things won't go flying around when it loosens. Once it loosens put a jack under the ball joint, remove the nut, and lower the jack.

#2, is the "pickle fork" or the heavy hammer to the casting still the preferred method for breaking the ball joint loose on this suspension set up? Or is there something more advanced available now? I suspect that the ball joint still uses the same tapered housing into the tapered hole from the old days?

Should still be a tapered fit. I am not aware of a better way than the pickle fork. Works well.

1 step forward, three steps back.... But I feel good about including these and getting the rotors/calipers SPOT ON.

Happens to all of us. I'm happy you are fixing it the right way.

Good luck.

[sjaroslo]

Holy cow, for as many times as I've stared at pictures of my car and crawled around under there, I just noticed that these are TORX socket head cap screws! Wow, I would have been TORQUED if I got all set to actually take this on and realized I didn't have the tool....

And the more I read, the more I read that most people seem to pop their ball joints with a BFH smacked to the side, although there is a tool out there that looks smart to me, but it is scarce and pricey (Kent Moore J-42188-B).... Sigh.

[Jay@GMR]

One more idea. You may be able to leave ball joint in tact. Remove the (2) upper bolts first from the hub unit. Then, so long as you can get the torx wrench on the lower bolt...... as you loosen it just let the hub unit separate from the streering knuckle, instead of letting the bolt back out into the balljoint stud.

If for some reason you cannot get the torx wrench completely on the lower bolt... simply loosen the castle nut so that it is sitting slightly above the stud (as to not damage the stud threads when you wack it with the brass hammer)...... and give it a swift wack with a brass hammer. By loosening the nut to top of the stud it allows the stud/castle nut to drop just out of the way so that you can access the lower bolt.

Jay

[sjaroslo]

Thanks, Jay. The issue is definitely not being able to get a tool on the torx head bolt as long as the stud from the lower ball joint is sticking up there. I don't have a brass hammer but I have a dead blow (I think that's what it is called) that packs a pretty good punch but I haven't heard of a lot of people being successful with the vertical smack, although you'd think that would make sense; most recommend the horizontal blow to the side of the LCA casting. Regardless, I'm sure that somehow I'll manage to eff something else up while I'm trying to remediate this one....

[jpgolf14]

Thanks, Jay. The issue is definitely not being able to get a tool on the torx head bolt as long as the stud from the lower ball joint is sticking up there. I don't have a brass hammer but I have a dead blow (I think that's what it is called) that packs a pretty good punch but I haven't heard of a lot of people being successful with the vertical smack, although you'd think that would make sense; most recommend the horizontal blow to the side of the LCA casting. Regardless, I'm sure that somehow I'll manage to eff something else up while I'm trying to remediate this one....

Just make sure you put a hex head on there so you don't have to go through this again.

[snappytravis]

whats the lowdown on the hub spacers? I just started my art morrison-wilwood brake setup today and the rotor touches the lower a arm just barely, need either the gm or these

[Jay@GMR]

whats the lowdown on the hub spacers? I just started my art morrison-wilwood brake setup today and the rotor touches the lower a arm just barely, need either the gm or these

Hmmmm, this sounds odd. The OE sensor bracket only accounts for .062+- So if you are currently touching the arm, I am not so sure .062 would be adequit space from the arm..... I am thinking you have something else going on? Wrong offset hat/rotor? Can you post a picture or at least tell us what brake set-up this is?

Jay

[Ron.in.SoCal]

whats the lowdown on the hub spacers? I just started my art morrison-wilwood brake setup today and the rotor touches the lower a arm just barely, need either the gm or these

Hmmmm, this sounds odd. The OE sensor bracket only accounts for .062+- So if you are currently touching the arm, I am not so sure .062 would be adequit space from the arm..... I am thinking you have something else going on? Wrong offset hat/rotor? Can you post a picture or at least tell us what brake set-up this is?

Jay

I had the same problem and so did David Pozzi. The way he explained it, GM puts has a tiny spacer on the hub (not a vette guy so I don't recall the exact part, maybe a brake duct?) which we don't have on our old cars. Simple fix is to grind the lower arm a tiny bit or as Jay said, a 1/16" spacer does the trick...

[snappytravis]

I had the same problem and so did David Pozzi. The way he explained it, GM puts has a tiny spacer on the hub (not a vette guy so I don't recall the exact part, maybe a brake duct?) which we don't have on our old cars. Simple fix is to grind the lower arm a tiny bit or as Jason said, a 1/16" spacer does the trick...

Ron, the part is the bracket that holds the abs sensor wire, My rotors look like they are centered in the caliper, just afraid that shim may through that off, thinking about grinding a tad if that's what you did and it worked fine, thanks

[Ron.in.SoCal]

It works fine Trav...

[sjaroslo]

Don't know if you might want to run this by the guys at Morrison just to verify.... They've been pretty helpful to me. Also, I assume that you're just in the mock-up stage so you still have plans to safety wire your caliper bolts? :-) I think that I have all of the tools that I need to remove the hubs and install the spacers, now all that I need is some time and an infusion of talent.... Hope that you get your situation straightened out, Travis.

[snappytravis]

Steve, I will do that, I was a snap on dealer for 8 years, have tons of tools, It's just getting the ambition to use them, lol, I appreciate the help, It's not very much a guy needs for clearance just a tad bit, just close enough to screw a guy up. thanks

[sjaroslo]

So I was doing a little more research on this project, thinking that I might be ready to tackle it, and in trying to locate the torque specs (which I haven't found yet), I stumbled across something that scared the crap out of me.... I saw that Pfadt was selling the GM replacement bolts that hold the hub to the upright and they advertised to "be sure to replace these ONE TIME USE BOLTS with new ones" if replacing the hub!! Holy crap, can anyone confirm that? I hate being ignorant of this stuff but I would hate to die from a crash because my hubs broke off even more.... Any insight would be appreciated.

[jpgolf14]

So I was doing a little more research on this project, thinking that I might be ready to tackle it, and in trying to locate the torque specs (which I haven't found yet), I stumbled across something that scared the crap out of me.... I saw that Pfadt was selling the GM replacement bolts that hold the hub to the upright and they advertised to "be sure to replace these ONE TIME USE BOLTS with new ones" if replacing the hub!! Holy crap, can anyone confirm that? I hate being ignorant of this stuff but I would hate to die from a crash because my hubs broke off even more.... Any insight would be appreciated.

What is the bolt thread size and what is the specified torque? I can't believe they are actually torque to yield bolts.

[sjaroslo]

What is the bolt thread size and what is the specified torque? I can't believe they are actually torque to yield bolts.

I found a source that indicated 96 ft lbs. I believe the spec on the bolt is M12x1.75x54 (according to Nalley Chevrolet Parts diagrams). They are Torx-head capscrew-type....

Here's the source of my concern:

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/p...roducts_id/267