h4 headlamp conversion

[66larkgs]

what is the best headlight conversion for a 5 3/4 headlamp. i am looking to do this on my 1966 skylark. i know i have to use relay's which isnt a big deal to wire up i just want to use a headlamp that looks nice. anyone use a jeep tj headlamp? i saw the build where they take vw reflectors and use the glass from a t3 and glue the two together to make a t3 with a t4 build and reflector.

Paul
66larkgs

[DEIVIONCRX]

Id look for the Hella ECE or E-Code conversions.

[CreepinDeth]

Some guys had me searching for CIBIE's and all these other crazy expensive options
and I finally found a budget and quality set of 5 3/4" H4 assemblies on Ebay on my own.

I put a set on my 1970 442 and they're leaps and bounds better then stock.
Got em from this guy. He sells both the low and high beam setups.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-4000-H...item4cfb5679d0

i know i have to use relay's

No you don't "have to" but it does improve lighting power by giving them 14.4 Volts vs 11.x Volts.

[Nothingface5384]

cibie e-code(ECE) would be best option
boshe pretty sure makes an ece/ecode

hellas ecode(ECE) are a bit cheaper then both but still good enough for h4 conversion and future HID conversion add-on down ther line

I did hear the hellas tend to scatter the beam to the side and light more of the trees off road rather then strait on the road,,but still hell better then any oem sealed beam or halogen upgrade

anything that is not e-code(ECE) wont have the right beam pattent and light distance cuttoff and will potentially blind oncommig traffic if you decide to do HID conversion later down the line with the housings

[Nothingface5384]

so I guess the real question is do you plan to do HIDs down the line...if so get the best ece-ecode rated houseing...which are cibie...if not then i'm sure any h4 conversion housing will be good enough

[zombiekiller]

I'd actually opt to do h1s. H4s are not that big of an improvement.

Drop Daniel stern lighting a note. He really knows his stuff.

[Twentyover]

H1's don't provide a provision for a low beam. Most 4 headlight systems like the OP is describing use an H4 outer (hi/lo) and H1 inner (high beam)

[zombiekiller]

H1's don't provide a provision for a low beam. Most 4 headlight systems like the OP is describing use an H4 outer (hi/lo) and H1 inner (high beam)

Why would you use a dual filament h4 when you don't need it? A single bulb will perform much better.


From daniel stern:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html[/url]
.Parts are specially made premium-grade items (e.g. ceramic headlamp sockets) that accept large-gauge wire; this is not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store.
Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install harness assembly using the same components.
Cost for this option is $139 (including parts and labour - you pick _either_ the relay kit _or_ the custom-built harness. It costs more than the $30 to $50 Chinese prefab harnesses because it is not a Chinese prefab harness).
Installation is simple: you run the marked wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness sockets onto the headlamps, and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out of harm's way. Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any of the vehicle's original wires.

[Twentyover]

OK, I guess the question really is, does a 55 or 60W H1 in a dedicated low beam housing (I'm assuming you don't want to be a jerk and run a big wattage bulb on low beam potentially overpowering the oncoming driver's ability to adjust to light/dark quickly; or face fix it tickets) provide more light on Hi lense than say a 55/100W H4 on High beam, and is the improvement in lighting on low beam worth the trade off? I guess it depends on the type of driving (conditions, speeds, city/country/freeway/rural highway) you are trying to optimize.

As far as an increase in efficiency Sterns claims, not sure what that means. More light (and I don't know how that's objectively measured) per watt? Or some other measure? I really don't care about output/watt, I'm looking at total light output.

Regarding your claim that H4's "are not that big of an improvement", I'll assume that's an opinion unless you back it up with data. An opinion I don't share

[zombiekiller]

OK, I guess the question really is, does a 55 or 60W H1 in a dedicated low beam housing (I'm assuming you don't want to be a jerk and run a big wattage bulb on low beam potentially overpowering the oncoming driver's ability to adjust to light/dark quickly; or face fix it tickets) provide more light on Hi lense than say a 55/100W H4 on High beam, and is the improvement in lighting on low beam worth the trade off? I guess it depends on the type of driving (conditions, speeds, city/country/freeway/rural highway) you are trying to optimize.

As far as an increase in efficiency Sterns claims, not sure what that means. More light (and I don't know how that's objectively measured) per watt? Or some other measure? I really don't care about output/watt, I'm looking at total light output.

Regarding your claim that H4's "are not that big of an improvement", I'll assume that's an opinion unless you back it up with data. An opinion I don't share

I've done the h4 upgrade on a few cars. I even ended up using the higher output tractor bulbs in am fj-60 once upon a time too. I found myself wanting around here. ( every road that is even 15 mins outside of nashville is DARK.)

that being said, I upgraded the lights for a buddy in a 65 galaxie with the housings and bulbs that Stern recommends as well. HUGE difference and very distinct cutoff & minimal bleed. I don't have the light measurement tools necessary to give hard and fast numbers on output, but i will say that the functional difference was pretty substantial. I also did wire it so all 4 lights were on when the high beam circuit was switched on. He was running 55w low beam h1s.

I'm planning to do the same upgrade to my car once I get through a fair amount of other things. I'll make sure to post pics of the output.

[Twentyover]

cool. Too bad we can't execute a side by side comparison of an H1/H1 w/ a bifocal and h1 high bean vs. an H1/H4 more traditional design, so we would be comparing new parts vs new parts.

[CreepinDeth]

H1's don't provide a provision for a low beam.
Most 4 headlight systems like the OP is describing use an H4 outer (hi/lo) and H1 inner (high beam)

Agreed.

Why would you use a dual filament h4 when you don't need it?

Because that's how they came from the factory.
Dual filaments on the outer headlights, and H1's on the inner for Brights only.

When the brights are off, only the outer low beam headlights are on.
When the brights are turned on, all 4 high beam headlights are on.
It's the housing itself that does the reflecting of the light, not the bulb from what I understand.
However, I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of all H1's VS an H4/H1 setup.

[Nothingface5384]

hmm when i through ti had things figured out danial drops new info ..

so yea someone should do cibbie h4/h1 combo vs cibbie h4 converted to Hid with cibie h1/hi(not converted) vs Hella BiFocal H1 low beams and cibie h1 hi beams

still think the hids would still kinda of blind oncomming traffic since its still a reflector housing anf not a projector housing..

[CreepinDeth]

HID's require projector housings or they will blast oncoming drivers.

[JRouche]

still think the hids would still kinda of blind oncomming traffic since its still a reflector housing anf not a projector housing..

Not sure what HID lamps you are looking at but I did alot of research and ended up buying some Acura HID units, got a few complete units, projectors, ballasts, bulbs, housings AND wiring. Dont forget the wiring, mainly the plugs if buying used.

The Acura HID projectors are nice. They are the auto shade type. Some of the newer ones come with the "patterned" lenses and I dont really like those and have some "clear" lenses.

IMO a street-able HID lighting system should use projectors. Not just an HID bulb in a H-4 or other housing.

But!! You can modify an H-4 housing to work with the projector. And thats what Im working on. Bought some decent H-4 housings from Adjure to use until I modify them for the projectors. I also bought some inexpensive H-4 housings to "test" with first. They are very inexpensive and make for a good test platform.

Here is a pretty nice talk about some lighting systems. Just one of MANY found. http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

Its amazing how much effort and talk is put to lighting. I imagine it comes down to use. To be honest, if I lived in some of the dark outskirts of town I would have some auxiliary aircraft landing lamps available for use on my ride. I know, starts looking like a rally car. When you are out in the sticks it gets really dark! JR

[AintQik]

Let me ask a dumb question here. I'm just getting to the lights on my car and I don't really need any HIDs or anything like that. I'd be fine with a halogen bulb in a 7" round housing. Those don't need a relay do they? I got a lot more research to do.

[Yoda4561]

Need no, but that's where the real improvement in lighting is, getting the full voltage and power to the headlights to make them perform. Relays are the easiest and safest way to do this. I'd put relays first if you're looking to spend money on headlight improvement, then go with the conversion. You can do it either way, if you need a new pair of sealed beams and know you want to switch to h4's then there's no problem doing that first.

[pitts12driver]

+1 for Daniel Stern. I apologize for the length of this inclusion, but this was his response to me in regards to a 7" setup fro my camaro. - Adam
_______________________

I've read your articles and commentary with great interest.
I'm fortunate to have two wonderful cars with current
projector systems, and they are wonderful.

Yup. Makes it harder to drive a car with poor headlamps.

I'm building a pro-touring 1969 Camaro, and would like it to
have as optimal a lighting setup as I can install.

Okeh -- what goes into your definition of optimal?

convinced me that an E-code housing (Hella or Cibie) plus
the appropriate bulb is a rational path.

Yup. The two you mention (Hella & Cibie) are both major brands, well made of quality materials. They aren't equivalent, however.

I can supply any headlamp Cibie, Hella, or Bosch makes. Cibies are considerably better than Hellas. Take a look at http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/Isocomparo.html

These are isocandela diagrams for Cibie and Hella 7" (large round) headlamp units. The 200mm x 142mm (large rectangular) units are very closely comparable, brand for brand. Why not photographs? Because photographs of beam patterns can be very misleading even if the photographer has the best of intentions, because pixels and film work in a fundamentally different way than human eyes. First, let's look at more objective comparisons of different headlamps' beam performance. The way to do that is with isocandela diagrams, which are generated by a machine called a photogoniometer that measures the intensity of light produced by the headlamp through a large range of vertical and horizontal angles. are just like topographical (elevation) maps, except the squiggles and lines represent amounts of light, instead of elevation above sea level. The beam pattern is correctly aimed as it would be on a car on the road, and each differently-colored line represents the threshold of a particular intensity level. Each diagram is plotted on a chart calibrated in degrees. Straight ahead is represented by (0,0), that is, zero degrees up-down and zero degrees left-right.

To get a mental approximation of the units and amounts under discussion here:

Parking lamp: About 60 to 100 candela
Front turn signal: About 500 candela
Glaring high-beam daytime running lamps (e.g. Saturn): 8000 candela

The parameters to pay attention to are the luminous flux (total amount of light within the beam), the maximum intensity and its location within the beam relative to the axial point (H,V) -- the less downward/rightward offset, the longer the seeing distance -- stray light outside the beam pattern and effective beam width (contained within the dark-turquoise 500 candela contour)

Things to notice about these two diagrams:

(1) The Cibie produces a much wider beam pattern than the Hella. The 1000 candela line of the Cibie's beam pattern extends from 25 degrees Left to 25 degrees right, while the 1000 candela line of the Hella extends from 18 degrees Left to 20 degrees Right. At a distance of 50 feet from the car, this means the 1000 candela-and-brighter portion of the Hella's beam is 10.5 feet narrower than that of the Cibie. The 300 cd contour of the Cibie's pattern is *far* wider, extending from 43 degrees Left to 50 degrees Right, compared to 26 Left to 25 Right for the Hella. This means the overall useful width of the beam pattern at 25 feet from the car, as perceived by the driver, will be 40.7 feet for the Cibie and 22.3 feet for the Hella.

2) The total luminous flux (overall amount of light) within the beam pattern is 695 lumens for the Cibie, 463 lumens for the Hella - the Cibie is 50.1% more efficient. (the TLF data is listed as "Luminous Flux" in the readings up above the isocandela diagram)


The high beams for these two lamps (isocandela diagrams not yet scanned in) are very similar in overall performance and amount of light -- the critical difference is that the Cibie's high beam hot spot is located closer to (0,0) and closer to its low beam hot spot. The Hella's high beam and low beam hot spots are separated by a fairly large vertical amount, such that setting the lows where they belong results in most of the high beam light going up in the trees, but pulling the high beams down so they send light straight ahead puts the low beams 10 feet in front of the car.

Get the Cibies. If you stay with stock wiring, you need to stick with stock-wattage bulbs; options are plain ($9), high output ($13) or ultra high output ($18). Given the thin original wiring, you will want to put in headlamp relays whether or not you intend to increase bulb wattage over the stock level. This can be achieved with relay kit RIK-2, $49. The RIK is not a harness, but a _parts kit_ containing all relays, brackets, terminal blocks, terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and fuseholders. You supply your own wire and use the parts from the kit to build up your own wiring harness. Specific instructions are provided, and the concept is explained at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html .Parts are specially made premium-grade items (e.g. ceramic headlamp sockets) that accept large-gauge wire; this is not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store. Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install harness assembly using the same components. Cost for this option is $139 (including parts and labour - you pick _either_ the relay kit _or_ the custom-built harness. It costs more than the $40 to $90 Chinese prefab harnesses because it is not a Chinese prefab harness). Installation is simple: you run the marked wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness sockets onto the headlamps, and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out of harm's way. Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any of the vehicle's original wires. If you upgrade the wiring by either method, use Narva 100/90w bulbs, $20/ea.

Please specify whether you wish lamps with ($75.95/ea) or without ($74.95/ea) built-in parking lamps. This what we're talking about is a small 5w bulb that sticks through the lamp's reflector into the lamp itself, a couple of inches away from the main headlight bulb, via a socket and grommet. "City light" is a common casual term for this. The official European/international term is "front position lamp". North American terminology calls them "parking lamps". It is _only_ a parking lamp, not capable of producing an effective or legal daytime running light or turn signal function no matter what bulb is installed. Electrical connection is by two standard 1/4" spade terminals. Ground one, and run the other to the vehicle's parking lamp feed. The city light illuminates the whole headlamp in a "pilot light" sort of fashion; this makes for large-area parking lamps, and if a headlight bulb ever burns out, oncoming traffic still sees you as a double-track vehicle. Outside North America, parking lamps must emit white light, the North American style amber ones are not allowed. In North America, parking lamps may emit white or amber light, and these white ones built into the headlamp are a legal form of parking lamp in the USA and Canada.

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[CreepinDeth]

Let me ask a dumb question here. I'm just getting to the lights on my car and I don't really need any HIDs or anything like that. I'd be fine with a halogen bulb in a 7" round housing. Those don't need a relay do they? I got a lot more research to do.

Not necessary, but definitely beneficial.

I'd do the 7" H4 bulb housing upgrade personally, they're only $20-$30 on Ebay.
They are glass, and they are better then the factory headlights.

[CreepinDeth]

Not sure what HID lamps you are looking at but I did alot of research and ended up buying some Acura HID units, got a few complete units, projectors, ballasts, bulbs, housings AND wiring. Dont forget the wiring, mainly the plugs if buying used.

He's talking about regular halogen housings people putting HID bulbs into that aren't designed for that.

The Acura HID housings are projectors designed for HID bulbs.