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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jul 2009
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      536
      Country Flag: United States
      Let me ask a dumb question here. I'm just getting to the lights on my car and I don't really need any HIDs or anything like that. I'd be fine with a halogen bulb in a 7" round housing. Those don't need a relay do they? I got a lot more research to do.

      RJ Cilurso
      67 Camaro with a few things bolted to it
      12 Camaro with a few things bolted to it
      50 Chevy 5 window p/u with a few things unbolted
      USAF


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jun 2009
      Location
      Southwest Florida
      Posts
      246
      Need no, but that's where the real improvement in lighting is, getting the full voltage and power to the headlights to make them perform. Relays are the easiest and safest way to do this. I'd put relays first if you're looking to spend money on headlight improvement, then go with the conversion. You can do it either way, if you need a new pair of sealed beams and know you want to switch to h4's then there's no problem doing that first.


      -- Dan

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Feb 2011
      Posts
      18
      +1 for Daniel Stern. I apologize for the length of this inclusion, but this was his response to me in regards to a 7" setup fro my camaro. - Adam
      _______________________

      I've read your articles and commentary with great interest.
      I'm fortunate to have two wonderful cars with current
      projector systems, and they are wonderful.

      Yup. Makes it harder to drive a car with poor headlamps.

      I'm building a pro-touring 1969 Camaro, and would like it to
      have as optimal a lighting setup as I can install.

      Okeh -- what goes into your definition of optimal?

      convinced me that an E-code housing (Hella or Cibie) plus
      the appropriate bulb is a rational path.

      Yup. The two you mention (Hella & Cibie) are both major brands, well made of quality materials. They aren't equivalent, however.

      I can supply any headlamp Cibie, Hella, or Bosch makes. Cibies are considerably better than Hellas. Take a look at http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/Isocomparo.html

      These are isocandela diagrams for Cibie and Hella 7" (large round) headlamp units. The 200mm x 142mm (large rectangular) units are very closely comparable, brand for brand. Why not photographs? Because photographs of beam patterns can be very misleading even if the photographer has the best of intentions, because pixels and film work in a fundamentally different way than human eyes. First, let's look at more objective comparisons of different headlamps' beam performance. The way to do that is with isocandela diagrams, which are generated by a machine called a photogoniometer that measures the intensity of light produced by the headlamp through a large range of vertical and horizontal angles. are just like topographical (elevation) maps, except the squiggles and lines represent amounts of light, instead of elevation above sea level. The beam pattern is correctly aimed as it would be on a car on the road, and each differently-colored line represents the threshold of a particular intensity level. Each diagram is plotted on a chart calibrated in degrees. Straight ahead is represented by (0,0), that is, zero degrees up-down and zero degrees left-right.

      To get a mental approximation of the units and amounts under discussion here:

      Parking lamp: About 60 to 100 candela
      Front turn signal: About 500 candela
      Glaring high-beam daytime running lamps (e.g. Saturn): 8000 candela

      The parameters to pay attention to are the luminous flux (total amount of light within the beam), the maximum intensity and its location within the beam relative to the axial point (H,V) -- the less downward/rightward offset, the longer the seeing distance -- stray light outside the beam pattern and effective beam width (contained within the dark-turquoise 500 candela contour)

      Things to notice about these two diagrams:

      (1) The Cibie produces a much wider beam pattern than the Hella. The 1000 candela line of the Cibie's beam pattern extends from 25 degrees Left to 25 degrees right, while the 1000 candela line of the Hella extends from 18 degrees Left to 20 degrees Right. At a distance of 50 feet from the car, this means the 1000 candela-and-brighter portion of the Hella's beam is 10.5 feet narrower than that of the Cibie. The 300 cd contour of the Cibie's pattern is *far* wider, extending from 43 degrees Left to 50 degrees Right, compared to 26 Left to 25 Right for the Hella. This means the overall useful width of the beam pattern at 25 feet from the car, as perceived by the driver, will be 40.7 feet for the Cibie and 22.3 feet for the Hella.

      2) The total luminous flux (overall amount of light) within the beam pattern is 695 lumens for the Cibie, 463 lumens for the Hella - the Cibie is 50.1% more efficient. (the TLF data is listed as "Luminous Flux" in the readings up above the isocandela diagram)


      The high beams for these two lamps (isocandela diagrams not yet scanned in) are very similar in overall performance and amount of light -- the critical difference is that the Cibie's high beam hot spot is located closer to (0,0) and closer to its low beam hot spot. The Hella's high beam and low beam hot spots are separated by a fairly large vertical amount, such that setting the lows where they belong results in most of the high beam light going up in the trees, but pulling the high beams down so they send light straight ahead puts the low beams 10 feet in front of the car.

      Get the Cibies. If you stay with stock wiring, you need to stick with stock-wattage bulbs; options are plain ($9), high output ($13) or ultra high output ($18). Given the thin original wiring, you will want to put in headlamp relays whether or not you intend to increase bulb wattage over the stock level. This can be achieved with relay kit RIK-2, $49. The RIK is not a harness, but a _parts kit_ containing all relays, brackets, terminal blocks, terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and fuseholders. You supply your own wire and use the parts from the kit to build up your own wiring harness. Specific instructions are provided, and the concept is explained at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html .Parts are specially made premium-grade items (e.g. ceramic headlamp sockets) that accept large-gauge wire; this is not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store. Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install harness assembly using the same components. Cost for this option is $139 (including parts and labour - you pick _either_ the relay kit _or_ the custom-built harness. It costs more than the $40 to $90 Chinese prefab harnesses because it is not a Chinese prefab harness). Installation is simple: you run the marked wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness sockets onto the headlamps, and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out of harm's way. Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any of the vehicle's original wires. If you upgrade the wiring by either method, use Narva 100/90w bulbs, $20/ea.

      Please specify whether you wish lamps with ($75.95/ea) or without ($74.95/ea) built-in parking lamps. This what we're talking about is a small 5w bulb that sticks through the lamp's reflector into the lamp itself, a couple of inches away from the main headlight bulb, via a socket and grommet. "City light" is a common casual term for this. The official European/international term is "front position lamp". North American terminology calls them "parking lamps". It is _only_ a parking lamp, not capable of producing an effective or legal daytime running light or turn signal function no matter what bulb is installed. Electrical connection is by two standard 1/4" spade terminals. Ground one, and run the other to the vehicle's parking lamp feed. The city light illuminates the whole headlamp in a "pilot light" sort of fashion; this makes for large-area parking lamps, and if a headlight bulb ever burns out, oncoming traffic still sees you as a double-track vehicle. Outside North America, parking lamps must emit white light, the North American style amber ones are not allowed. In North America, parking lamps may emit white or amber light, and these white ones built into the headlamp are a legal form of parking lamp in the USA and Canada.

      HOW TO ORDER:

      Orders may be sent via e-mail to: [email protected]

      You may also voicemail or fax your order toll-free on 1-866-861-8668.
      Please note this is a recorded orderline only. If you wish to speak to me
      in person, please use 416-766-2327.

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      account; just provide the details with your order.

      Please also state whether the delivery driver has permission to leave the
      parcel at your doorstep if you are not available to accept and sign for it
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      CREDIT CARDS:
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      card info is not retained after processing your order.

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      Highest Regards,

      Daniel Stern




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