Getting closer........

[GregWeld]

Detonation is much more of a timing issue than purely compression -- obviously with more compression - the timing becomes ever more critical.

I once did a dyno demo where we messed with AF ratios to see what they would do to the overall power... Way fat and lean - made VERY VERY little difference in the power - but 2 Degrees of timing either way was HUGE.

I agree with the other poster about HEAT and aluminum heads... There's kind of an old adage (not that old!) about 1 point of compression for running aluminum over iron - and 1 point more for EFI over a carb etc. So a modern EFI aluminum head can run some serious compression and live... compared to the old style iron head carb motor. Having said that - there's many "white papers" discussing the power difference of "same motor" - compression vs power made... and compression is important - but 1/2 a point or so is not as big a deal as we would like it to be. I've learned - as many here have - that the CAM is important when mated to the compression... in other words CYLINDER PRESSURE... take a lame ass 9:1 motor - with too large of a cam - and you have zippola for power... as it (the cam) bleeds off cylinder pressure. Different cam - wake the motor up and it'll run just fine... so full circle -- it's all about the TOTAL COMBINATION.

[wmhjr]

The engine I blew had 9:1 iron heads and made more power than I ever expected it to. The new engine with heads that flow 20% more will wake it up no matter what the compression.

Jim, my understanding is that 9:1 cast iron heads replaced with similar aluminum requires 10:1. Aluminum needs more heat to make the same power. Flow means something, but not everything (at all). I'd guess in your build velocity is more important, as is the port design. In any case, without sufficient heat you may be unhappy. Aluminum needs heat. Low cylinder compression with a good cam and aluminum heads may well lead to a loss of power without any reliability gain. I would personally never run less than 10:1 compression with decent aluminum heads.

I can sure understand you being a bit shy right now after just having a motor grenade on you, but to me it's LOTS easier to make a good estimate of static compression, build the heads/slugs that way, and try it. You'll quickly know. If you decide you want to then reduce compression, it's way easier to pull the heads, send them to a good shop to have a few cc's milled out of the chambers and you're done. If you start with too low compression, it's a far more difficult process.

[HILROD]

All other things equal I'd go with 10-1 with aluminum heads in a heartbeat, before the less compression iron heads. They would both run on the same gas. The aluminum headed one should make more power, and weigh less!

[6'9"Witha69]

I am @ 10.8:1 with al heads. Before that I consistently ran 9.8:1 with Iron heads. As said, depending on timing, it should all work just fine.

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim, my understanding is that 9:1 cast iron heads replaced with similar aluminum requires 10:1. Aluminum needs more heat to make the same power. Flow means something, but not everything (at all). I'd guess in your build velocity is more important, as is the port design. In any case, without sufficient heat you may be unhappy. Aluminum needs heat. Low cylinder compression with a good cam and aluminum heads may well lead to a loss of power without any reliability gain. I would personally never run less than 10:1 compression with decent aluminum heads.

I can sure understand you being a bit shy right now after just having a motor grenade on you, but to me it's LOTS easier to make a good estimate of static compression, build the heads/slugs that way, and try it. You'll quickly know. If you decide you want to then reduce compression, it's way easier to pull the heads, send them to a good shop to have a few cc's milled out of the chambers and you're done. If you start with too low compression, it's a far more difficult process.

Very good point about taking out material to lower the compression. I can actually port them and cc them myself if it came to that and get the benefit of removing the right amount in the right places. I will talk to him about that option, milling them can bring it up but hat does require making the manifold fit and clearances.

Monday will be the day we decide on the heads and then he said we could decide on the lower end.

I am getting better about tearing into the engine and drivetrain and find it is a fairly easy car to work on once you get it down and have all the tools lined up. It is both metric and standard all over the place.

I now have certain rituals with raising and lowering the car and sure could use your lift .

I figured out how to fix my fuel problem and have to get the materials and the fittings together. I should be able to always have fuel at any amount over half full and then it will be up to the reseviour containment area and the return supply volume. Anything would be better than what was.

I am confident the builder understands what my abilities are but I might need to enlighten him? I like the idea of being able to cc the heads and not have to deck them to be the right compression.

I can also take out iming at the touch of finger so that isn't an issue it would seem. I have to talk to him to see what he thinks.

The rest of the car is getting better too, it seems that there are so many things to do everytime it comes apart that it gets scary to start tearing it apart at all.

I need a day of rest from it and have too many things to do to be able to do it.

[Jim Nilsen]

I got the word about 4:30 that the engine will be done late this evening and I might be able to pick it up tonight. I get the truck treatment tonight and if it is tommorow I will use the Vibe. I have already set and engine in the Vibe to see if it was doable with my picker and it is a no problem for clearance and there are 8 hook points to tie it down with. The weight hardly did anything so I can do it that way if I have to.

I will have iron heads as originally planned, the spring pockets on the aluminum heads were too big. He has dynoed engines with all of the the components and a little less cam and carb and was getting 400 lb of TQ at 2800 rpm and 398 HP at 5800 rpm. I have a bit more cam and rpm range so I expect better but it will be more than enough power to learn with and keep the car under control. I need better brakes if I go any faster and then bigger wheels and then............


If all goes well I may have it ready to start Friday night or Saturday morning. I expect some delays for something but I should have everything or be able to get it in a few minutes at the local stores.

It all could go right back in just like it came out and be even better than before, that's the object, Right !!!!!

The fuel system is going to be better or plan B will come into effect and that will take some fab work but it will solve it for certain and it will get done later unless the new setup work well enough to keep the cell the way it is.

As long as this is just a base engine swap I should have it go well.

[Bow Tie 67]

* in a cheer voice * ......J... I....M..........spells........JIM.........Lets go Jim!!

[wmhjr]

Good news, Jim! So, did you get the motor last night? Or are you Vibing it today?

[Jim Nilsen]

Good news, Jim! So, did you get the motor last night? Or are you Vibing it today?

It's good Vibe-rations today. He didn't get it all done last night. I am expecting a call very soon this morning. It is an hour drive to go get it. I'm ready to go any time he calls.

I have to get break in oil and all the other periferals by tommorow and I also am getting some help tonight. It is going to be interesting to see how it all goes.

[Jim Nilsen]

The Vibe came thru with the duty of hauling the engine, it was easy and well strapped in. It never moved an inch the whole trip and was easy to bring to the edge and lift out. I once thought about it when I was buying it that it could haul an engine and it did.

The engine is 9.4:1 with iron heads and with the change of a head gasket will go to 10:1. The parts are all nice stuff and the quality looks good. I am told that it can go to well over 7000 rpm if I ever wanted to go with the valvetrain to do it. 6400 rpm is what the cam is good for and maybe now it will pull the extra 400 rpm with more power.

I had a friend stop by and we already have it in the engine bay and I can start putting it back together. Can I put it all back together in a day? If it all bolts in good the first time it would be a miracle but then again the sales amount for the engine was full of lucky numbers.

I think it is going to be a lot faster and best of all not an oil burner. At the cost of oil I think it could have added up to a monthly payment for the engine,LOL.

More tommorow....

[Jim Nilsen]

I would like to be telling you that it is running great,

but the bellhousing alignment is kicking my ass again and I may need some different offset dowels. My dial gauge is also giving me fits and not want to do it's job, may borrow the one I used the last time as it did work much better.

So I won't make it for the weekend. They are calling for rain on sunday when I wanted to just go up and spectate.

When the builder called and asked how it runs and I told him I was having trouble with the bellhousing alignment, he told me he could have done it for me real easily. I would have been glad to pay right now.

Maybe I will go to the MidWest Challenge and be a bit more prepared.

[Jim Nilsen]

After fighting with the bell housing alignment all weekend I finally got it within .003. It just did not want to find its way to the right spot. The dowels were marked just a little off of the true high side and I don't believe that they always go in perfectly straight when you have to pound them in only 1/2 in.

I just couldn't put the Richmond in with any run out that would make it shift hard, it shifted really well and never came out of gear. It only had 3.5 run out the last time.

I think I was up and down 600 times and had it on and off 15 times. :bsjerk: . I am really good at pound the dowels out in a contorted postion. Glad it is over until it goes on a different engine.

I did get my hood all stiffened up with some wood ,cloth and more glass. it added about 3 lb but it was needed so it hopefully won't flex and need hood pins. I even did a little color sanding to relax my frustation with the bellhousing.

Now I can get on with putting it all together.

Really wish I had made the event this weekend.

Should be running by tommorow if all goes well from here.

[Motown 454]

Jim glad to hear you got it in within spec's. Atleast your past one of the most anoying parts of putting it back together. Post a video when you get it running.

[Bryce]

Here's a pic of the car in action.

Awesome. the best pics are teh ones when you see the car in action.

[Jim Nilsen]

I am just finishing up the exhaust and fire the car up and the power just went out.


I have enough daylight that I might be able to keep going and get it done

and so it goes..........

[Jim Nilsen]

IT'S ALIVE

Got it up and running and it sounds good. The tune seems to be good still and it is adding just a bit more fuel to compensate but only a few percent.

Now I have to break it in for another 15 to 20 minutes ,change the oile and filter,put the wheels back on and set it back down on the ground. The hood and grille have to go back in and it's ready for a drive.

I will be looking for the place to put the Accusump and getting it hooked up so it can do its job.

The fuel supply is hopefully going to work for now.


It's time for a beer

[Motown 454]

Great News!

[MonzaRacer]

COOL BEANS! Wish me luck in putting my 402 in my caprice and getting back under the Monza to work on the rear suspension, thinking or rethinking it as a 3 link with Fays2 watts link possibly. Oh And 283 went to machine shop, now just need time to get up there and get the machine work done, owner is friend so I can do it my self if I want to, and it keeps my machining skills sharp, now if pay check holds up I may have my much needed other 2 pistons by next week, unless they get backordered again.

[Jim Nilsen]

It has been an interesting day.

The code 66 keeps coming up and shutting off the ignition. I have checked all the grounds and the connections to make sure there is not one missing but all looks right. It will start right up sometimes and others it just doesn't want to. No distinct other problem?

Had the car around the block and it feels like it is going to really run good. Much better idle than the other engine for the most part. It doesn't blow out oil specs anymore from the exhaust. The back of the car should stay a lot cleaner now.

Until the thing stops going into the code 66 problem I won't be going to far away from home.

It feels good to have it back up and running again.

[Jim Nilsen]

I am going out to start the car and see what happens?

I sure hope to find the problem today. It is going to be nice out this afternoon so we will see how it goes.

I will be back for an update as to what the heck it is doing still.

Any good ideas and even crazy ideas as to what it is to make a code 66 come up is open for discussion.