alcon vs. others

[hemicuda]

Have you ever raced ,or seenor even heard of a nascar modified?I would talk to you about thermo dynamics and co-effiecent of brakes but that would confuse the shi- out of you.What is the difference about what track has how many turns,you have never in your life ran on those tracks any how...........who are you trying to kid!You have a car that YOU think is BOSS with your dime store,more than likely mismatched for the application!And If you ever went to the 24 hrs @daytona you would see that most AMERICANS in the gt class ran wilwood or american caliper.As always ,when one person feels that they are smarter (?) than others this will happen.My camaro has seen more stopping from 155mph than you will ever see on your picture camaro!If they hold an event where WE can run side by side,you will notice that when YOU are BEHIND me my WILWOODS do not smoke at all.And you are worried about lap times?What does that have to do with alcan brakes being inferior!Listen,my adviced to you is to go to a nascar MODIFIED race and watch how the big dogs run there car and then look at the brake calipers.W I L W O O D stamped on every one!!We are runnig 677hp,23degree headed small blocks,2498lbs and on certain tracks,we run FASTER than nextel cup cars.The brakes hvae to be perfect on these cars.We are sitting on a bunch of bars with no real protection EXCEPT foraround you.We feel the wind on our face and if something brakes on the notor it could come back at you.Being serious,there is a book written by bush wilwood and it is about brakes and thermal effiency.Read it.When we were at day tona,i seen a rolex porsche(996gt-3) and the gentlemen who owned the car bulit the brake system as per what the book said and he saod his brake swaps were now longer in between since he fix it.He was running factory porscha brakes(porsche makes there own systems).tell you what after the race ,check your brake temps.Find a person who is running wilwood(the person who won)and check theirs.I bet you will be hotter than theirs.this is america,run what you want,be as smart as you want and you can by any sytem you want .But the champions runWILWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[hemicuda]

if bad pennys car was sorted on a track with proven parts,THEN WHY DID HE GO TO A RACE WITH PADS THAT WERE NO GOOD FOR THE CAR???????????????????????????So fir this ,he switched to another company beacused he had the wrong parts?????????sounds like some one is steak chewing big time or some one is not telling the WHOLE STORY?????????????????????

[hemicuda]

Do you ever leave your house and go look at other cars???CORVETTE ZR-1'S DO NOT HAVE BREMBO BRAKES!NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!BULLSHI- NEVERCAME WITH THEM.Corvette zr-1's have GM bulit brakes.Percision forge calipers,one piece design and cost 298$ per caliper.pads are 450$ per wheel and use a carbon fibre rotor and pad.Wht carbon fiber you ask/HEAT!To get rid of it (heat).Again we go back to thermal dynamics but this is like explaining chinese math to a pre school teacher.Most companys bulid this brake cause it sells the truck or car.Did you ever see when todays dumb kids out 26 or bigger wheels on there escalade or denali.Did you ever see when they try to stop the abs comes on or it takes longer to stop.Then you see companies try to sell a kit that involves a bigger rotor and pads and they say it will stop better.Well it does stop better to a point.now the caliper has to work harder ,longer and burn up o-rings.This is beacuse of heat.(thermal dynamics).The same holds true with these cars.people are running pads designed for one thing and rotors designed for some thing else.They have calipers that run on low pressure,some on high pressure.I even seen one pro touring camaro 1969 vintage and this putz ran gm 6 piston calipers off a zo6 on all 4 corners of the car.This person is a total tool and a half!First off the weight bias alone will screw up this system.Then he ran a late model z28 master beacuse he thought that since they have 4 wheel discs,it will work on his car.You see you do not really need a 5$k brake kit to work great.just a little common sense goes a long way.Now getting back to cross drilled drums.Why does this seem so odd to you?It is a truck,there is no weight in the bed and when you have an application like this,adding crazy brakes and and buliding a 4-5$k system seems stupid.Sway bars and shocks with correct valving and good tires all bulid a great mouse trap.We all know this ,since we spend big money on our cars and trucks.But one thing that I noticed about your cars and the one we use around here.ENGINE!This is what YOU are using on yours and mine.I have seen your videosabout pro-touring and one thing I noticed................you guys all keep your cars in 1st or 2nd gear and go around the track and at the end you slam on the brakes or coast through.On this application you could run a stock 6cyl nova brakes and they would never get hot.Lets be honest here,we all run what we think is best..........right?The person who bulit motiv8r ran wilwood.Thats what he likes.you run alcan.you think that they are good.as the old germen saying goes .................k sa ra sa ra!

[TitoJones]

Have you ever raced ,or seenor even heard of a nascar modified?I would talk to you about thermo dynamics and co-effiecent of brakes but that would confuse the shi- out of you.What is the difference about what track has how many turns,you have never in your life ran on those tracks any how...........who are you trying to kid!You have a car that YOU think is BOSS with your dime store,more than likely mismatched for the application!And If you ever went to the 24 hrs @daytona you would see that most AMERICANS in the gt class ran wilwood or american caliper.As always ,when one person feels that they are smarter (?) than others this will happen.My camaro has seen more stopping from 155mph than you will ever see on your picture camaro!If they hold an event where WE can run side by side,you will notice that when YOU are BEHIND me my WILWOODS do not smoke at all.And you are worried about lap times?What does that have to do with alcan brakes being inferior!Listen,my adviced to you is to go to a nascar MODIFIED race and watch how the big dogs run there car and then look at the brake calipers.W I L W O O D stamped on every one!!We are runnig 677hp,23degree headed small blocks,2498lbs and on certain tracks,we run FASTER than nextel cup cars.The brakes hvae to be perfect on these cars.We are sitting on a bunch of bars with no real protection EXCEPT foraround you.We feel the wind on our face and if something brakes on the notor it could come back at you.Being serious,there is a book written by bush wilwood and it is about brakes and thermal effiency.Read it.When we were at day tona,i seen a rolex porsche(996gt-3) and the gentlemen who owned the car bulit the brake system as per what the book said and he saod his brake swaps were now longer in between since he fix it.He was running factory porscha brakes(porsche makes there own systems).tell you what after the race ,check your brake temps.Find a person who is running wilwood(the person who won)and check theirs.I bet you will be hotter than theirs.this is america,run what you want,be as smart as you want and you can by any sytem you want .But the champions runWILWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Sweet. I love tech discussions. I'll talk brake thermodynamics with you. I'm not as stupid on the subject as you might think I am.

I'll start.

Here is an AMERICAN car at Sebring (I posted a picture of that track in my previous post.) braking into a corner.



Wow. Look at those things. Red hot ceramic rotors. Let me show you something in the pits when they take the wheel off.


Looks they spelled 'Wilwood' wrong there. Easy mistake. Here is another AMERICAN car, this time a Cadillac CTS-V in the same event, same track.


What the hell? Where is that Wilwood caliper they ALL run? Can't Wilwood even spell their own company name right?

Just an FYI before we really go deep into this- I'm a former Porsche technician and Service Advisor. All Porsche brakes are Brembo. I have worked on GT3R cars and guess what? Brembo on all 4 corners. Porsche does not make their own calipers- hell, no auto manufacturer I know of makes their own calipers. In addition to that, I have built, sold parts for, and helped make some of the cars on this site run with the best in the world. I know how to match parts. I know what wins races. Before you pop off at the mouth about Bad Penny, you might want to do some research.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ight=bad+penny
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ight=bad+penny

You know that whole optima Speed Challenge thing? Penny won it first time out of the gate. Almost had it in the bag the 2nd time around too.

I never said I raced at any of those tracks, but you are claiming things you aren't able to back up at present.

155mph stops repeatedly in a 99 Camaro? Where did you do this pray-tell? You must have some distances recorded somewhere- how many feet was that?

Your suggestion of going to a NASCAR race is lost on me. Don't care, not interested. Circle track racing (even on road courses) does nothing for me. It's boring. My point that an ALMS car uses the brakes harder and more often than ANY Nascar still stands true. I could give a f*ck that NASCAR uses Wilwood. They go in circles all day and rarely use brakes to t6he point that any road race car will. I'm not saying Wilwood is crap; I'm saying there are better systems for track use on a road race car.

Bring tech back with your next response, and learn to spell, make sentences, and generally not come off like a 2nd grader in your writing; it's difficult to read and even more so to understand.

I'm anxiously awaiting your thermodynamic brake tech.

Tyler

[TitoJones]

Do you ever leave your house and go look at other cars???CORVETTE ZR-1'S DO NOT HAVE BREMBO BRAKES!NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!BULLSHI- NEVERCAME WITH THEM.Corvette zr-1's have GM bulit brakes.

Hmmmm...

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-zr1/features-specs/
Do me a favor and just have a quick look at that page. Tell me if you see what I see.

This is from GM, the manufacturer of the ZR1 Corvette:

Brembo® carbon-ceramic brakes

Don't believe me still? How about you take it from Brembo then.

http://www.brembo.com/US/Cars/Corvette2/



I can see how the word 'Corvette' may be misleading to you. I can put what ever I want on any caliper in the world, but it doesn't change the way they work, or who made them. The other brakes like on the Z06? Still not made my GM. Made by PBR Australia. Stick to what you know, which in this case, is not much.

Hmmm. You are losing all credibility my friend.


Tyler

[6'9"Witha69]

Tyler lives for this $h!t!

[hemicuda]

Well seeing how I had to replace the one caliper in my vette,the box says right on it;BULIT BY DELCO_MORAINE.NOT BREMBO!!!!Well i have to say that after looking at your web site it is no wonder you are defending those brakes.......................................with the prices you charge I can see why you are getting hot around the collar.if any of your customers ever found out that you could have sold a asif or better product,they would be bent.I guess with the prices you are charging I guess you CAN throw away good money on OTHER stuff.As for as the pictures;what are you showing me?Two cars out of 50 with some one elses parts.yeah and?Do you know wht those rotors are hot?Which one do you think it is.is it gasses or moving friction?Well you think about the answer and let me know.Nextel cup cars rotors and according to YOU have less turns and there fore less stoping.Remove your diaper and think!Did you notice the lettering on the rotor on the corvette.What do YOU think it means?After seeing how much you rap-ah I mean sell for brembos,I would defend them to.You bulid what you think is good and I will race with what I know works.See ya and have a happy...

[TitoJones]

Well seeing how I had to replace the one caliper in my vette,the box says right on it;BULIT BY DELCO_MORAINE.NOT BREMBO!!!!Well i have to say that after looking at your web site it is no wonder you are defending those brakes.......................................with the prices you charge I can see why you are getting hot around the collar.if any of your customers ever found out that you could have sold a asif or better product,they would be bent.I guess with the prices you are charging I guess you CAN throw away good money on OTHER stuff.As for as the pictures;what are you showing me?Two cars out of 50 with some one elses parts.yeah and?Do you know wht those rotors are hot?Which one do you think it is.is it gasses or moving friction?Well you think about the answer and let me know.Nextel cup cars rotors and according to YOU have less turns and there fore less stoping.Remove your diaper and think!Did you notice the lettering on the rotor on the corvette.What do YOU think it means?After seeing how much you rap-ah I mean sell for brembos,I would defend them to.You bulid what you think is good and I will race with what I know works.See ya and have a happy...

Wait; now you own a 2009 ZR1? Post pictures of this beast! Post a picture of you holding a sign next to it that says Tito Jones is an assh*le.

I have the manufacturers suggested retail on my website as per my dealer rules and regulations. Do I sell them at that price? Not typically. Are they as cheap as a set of Wilwoods? Not even close. You could get 2 sets of Wilwoods for the price of the AP Racing or Brembo setups on the ATS site.

You stated something that is so damn wrong it isn't even funny; I provided a fact. Present day ZR1 Corvettes come with Brembo brakes. You getting a replacement part from Autozone for your 1982 Corvette is not the same thing, not the same boat, not even the same subject. I could give 2 sh*ts you replaced a part with an aftermarket non OEM replacement; doesn't change the fact that I proved you wrong.

Carry on with your tech-less vomit.

Tyler

[TitoJones]

you sent me two link for a car calles BAD PENNY.Okay what am I supposed to see here?The car is in a nice shade of orange.looks like a factory chrysler color.nice.okay now what .I always said people from cali were a little off........to the left.

I should have known better than to ask you to read up on a car that puts ZR1 Corvettes to shame on Spring Vally raceway in Pahrump. I'll see what we can do about making a picture book for you that is simple enough that even a guy from New York can understand it. (no offense intended to our other NY members.)

Next time you want to insult me, try to use correct grammar, spaces between your sentences, and capital letters where appropriate. It takes me longer to decipher your posts than it should; quick insults aren't so quick when I have to try and decode your 2nd grade typing level.

Tyler

[jknight16]

This is a great topic, but as Tyler mentioned, should be discussed with Tech and not straight fanboyism (hey, if he can make up words so can I).

Looks like Alcon does offer a C5/C6 replacement setup that would work for people running the AFX spindle or any other C5/C6 based system. Looks like they're radial mounted as well. I'd be interested to see what the bracket looks like to achieve that.

Pricing approaching $4k for the fronts. Very cool. Kinda makes those Brembo Carbon Ceramics from the ZR1 seem like a bit of a bargain!

http://www.alconusa.com/client_images/files/92_593.pdf

[hemicuda]

[mod] facts not insults [/mod]

[hemicuda]

[mod] Take it easy there. [/mod]

[JohnUlaszek]

Way to stay classy for your 14th post.

[Damn True]

Hey, whoa-whoa-whoa!

Keep the personal attacks out of it. Either we discuss the topic based on facts and data and the relative merits of each or we don't discuss it at all.

Nothing wrong with having a preference for brand "a" over brand "b" but if said preference isn't rooted in anything fact based let's at least be intellectually honest enough to say so.

[hemicuda]

with the high price that you charge to bulid one of your cars,factoring time for labor,price of part and car itself ,and seeing how many gm parts you use it is cheaper to buy a zo6,put on race tires and have the same car but with a gm warranty!

[TitoJones]

I'm taking this one to PM. I can cuss more there.

Check your inbox sir.

Tyler

[hemicuda]

How can you stay "classy"when you have a person who once they lose the arquement starts refering to vomit,bitch slap and other insults.To think this man actually owns a shop where people actually buy there parts from.The more he ridicules him self here the more business will suffer.You are only as good as your last job.Right.I might have went a little over the top but when faced with lemons,I make lemonade.

[Damn True]

Use facts to support your opinion or bow out of the conversation.

[Matt@BOS]

But the champions runWILWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

I think hemicuda speaks the truth here. Bad Penny definitely holds the proof too. Last year at Spring Mountain, running WILWOODS!!! the car won the optima Street Car Invitational, this last time he ditched the Wilwoods for Baer and finished fourth. Undeniable proof!

Edit - statement is a fact, so please don't delete it.



Matt

[vintageracer]

I'm taking this one to PM. I can cuss more there.

Check your inbox sir.

Tyler

Tito,

Can you share your responses via a broad email base via PM? I sure am looking forward to reading this good cussing!