alcon vs. others

[Matt@BOS]

Payton, as far as my comment about Steve not winning optima this year,I didn't really expect anyone to take the comment seriously, which was my mistake, because I sort of slipped my mind that sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet.

James, thanks for jumping in with that info on pad choices for AP. I've done a tiny bit of research, but didn't turn up a great amount of info. I mostly ran into websites that acknowledged that Hawk, Ferodo, etc made pads, but did give a description of what they were intended for.I know I'm being lazy by not calling everyone up yet, but if have any info off hand, would you mind sending it my way, it would be much appreciated,



thanks,
Matt

[James OLC]

Here is what I have found for the APs...

Street Pads – Front and Rear
Ferodo DS2500
Porterfield R4-S (Kevlar – low dust)
Mintex Xtreme Motorsport

Front Only – Street Pads
Hawk HPS (need to be trimmed for hat clearance)

Front Only – Track Pads
Ferodo DS3000
Hawk HP Plus (need to be trimmed)
Pagid RS4-2-1

Rear Only – Track Pads
Porterfield R4

[Payton King]

Jim, but Carbotech makes them for the AP's as well.

Matt, I did not pay any attention to who made the comment, I know that you have seen Steve enough to know the story.

You car is very nice! Glad you are having a good time with it

[Matt@BOS]

Hey guys, thanks for posting the info. I'll have to look into the Porterfield R4-6, I wasn't aware of those before. No matter how off topic this thread has gotten I never figured it would end up even remotely constructive, but this has been a big help.

Matt

[MonzaRacer]

Hey guys, can I try to help?
If you have squeaks I have a company that makes a spray and hand applied product that you apply to the pad surface to reduce/eliminate brake squeak. It comes from Kent and is called Brake Silencer.
It probably would need to be reapplied after autocross/roadcourse use but it does help in the noise factor AND is some respects it does help with a little dusting.
Its not cheap and it does work and does not effect the braking ability of your pads.
Basically it has quartz(basic idea is if you rub the quartz, the frequencies are sympathetic and counter brake noise) in its black base so your rubbing on millions of tiny particles of quarts, the theory is use silicone brake lube(or other high heat brake lube) on the backs of your pads between the pads and calipers, also applying this product to the pad surface, either after a scuff on some 36 grit emery cloth, or new. allow to dry and install.
Very cool stuff. At shop I used to work for we ran Raybestos pads which were slightly harder than some other brands and in some circumstances would squeak or rumble.
GM started using it as they only have about 150 different pad formulations and sometimes the pads in the service pipe line can differ from updated pads.
Now on the note of hemi's caliper IT MAY HAVE CAME FROM DELCO MORAINE , been in their box and even re-manufactured by them possibly.
BUT in my mind I keep thinking I heard that AP/Brembo caliper bodies, the bodies are forged, but I may be wrong.
Again nothing wrong with Wilwood, but I can remember putting on the latest and greatest back in 86 on the Monte Carlo Aerocoupe we built for Super Stock and having to swap the whole setup as they lost rights to the design and we couldnt get repair parts to rebuild them and we had leaks.
now in that note I have seen much better quality, design and such in last few years. but after getting burnt on literally thousands of dollars parts then replacing them in less than 2 months,,,,hmmmmm.
also need someone to get Tylers opinion on the PBR Camaro (regular cast brake calipers and the Corvettes which I believe I read are cast differently)brakes vS Corvette,,, ok maybe not, and i do have to agree IF I needed setup help Id call Tyler over hemi.
HMMMM ever wonder why I am considering ATS G-body spindles (yes I know Speed Tech is doing that now but Tyler did the grunt work).
good info I need to book mark this page for the part numbers.

[hemicuda]

brembos are NOT the manufactuer of the calipers on ANY zo6,zr1 or any vette product!!!GM was using pbr calipers on camaros and firebirds.The only part bimbo makes on the zr1 vette IS THE ROTORS!!!thats ALL they make for that car!PERIOD!The GM caliper is a percision cast part made in house at GM!As a matter of fact,the rotors ,according to a rumor from gm is they were being made by pba.So I was told.When we ran wilwood on the race cars about 15 or so years ago,there was a problem with something over a pat.pending subject and they did stop selling or making parts BUT if you would of annoyed them like we did ,they made good on it and sent us 2 new calipers and parts for the others.My cousin was and still is running a pontiac 2plus2 in nhra stock eliminator and he just installed the wilwood 2 piston caliper on stock gm spindles and he says it stops better than gm single piston.There is a lot of nasty people and things being said about me or the guy tito but the main jist of the conversation was brembos,ap or others is that,unless you rally your car EVERY weekend and abuse the heck out of it all you are doing is taking ALOT of money and burning it on waste ful stuff.If you are protouring a car,I would spend my money wisely and but parts that are perfect for your car.Not buying big$$$$$ on brembos or others cause the color is cool or the rotors are gold in color.That is beyond stupid.I bought(in process of ordering) a kit from KORE3 and putting gm zo6 parts on our shop truck.His price is right on,the parts work as perfectly a s others(wilwood included) and if I need parts,any gm dealer can get them or has them in stock.When you start buying the other brands all included they have to be ordered and wait a while for the parts.If you were to buy a brembo kit with 14"rotors(by the way KORE 3 has 14" has part of the kit.)and the rotor was cracked,you have to remove it,mail it back ,put hands on ass and wait!Gm ;unbolt,go to GM,bring home and install.And why would you want to install a aluminium part as a spindle and use this.I do not know but I would not want that on acar I was racing.The ones GM bulids go throughs extensive testing and x-ray to make sure that it is perfect.This is a expensive process and I doubt that the average shop can afford this.run a stock gm spindle and get the correct brackets and rin what ever caliper you want.As far as buliding brake systems,we have bulit more brake systems than I care to remember.Started around 1987.Today is 2012.WOW it has been a while.If you need any help or info holla at me and Either I or bobby will try to help you.

[hemicuda]

When you start mixing and matching pads to suit your driving need,check the rotors!If you run a pad compound that YOU think is perfect for your driving you may not know it but you can actually grind down the rotor and ruin it in one race.You should check with the rotor manufactuer to make sure the pad is compatible with there rotor.I see people here posting pads and saw no one mentioning the rotor.Rotor is as important or more so since the pad will be touching it.Just a helpful lesson to help you save money?But then again what do I know!

[James OLC]

Wow. I've been a member of this site for almost 10 years and this is the first time that I have actively sought out and used the "ignore" feature.

Timmy, a couple of things before I go... 1. Explore spelling, punctuation, and grammer before you hurt somebody (too late). 2. Try to post something helpful if you think you need to post anything at all; if you just want to see your name in print, try the general discussion area and don't pollute legitimate technical posts. 3. Don't argue facts based on "what you were told" - someone is obviously not giving you good information. 4. Nobody was saying anything nasty about Tyler and 5. no matter where you are and what you think you know... it's 2010...

Hopefully this post can get back to something meaningful again...

[James OLC]

Jim, but Carbotech makes them for the AP's as well.

Thanks for the heads up on the Carbotech pads Payton. We're trying to find suitable pads for the OLoA right now but obviously it's a unique environment and the ideal pad may be hard to narrow down... we need pads that works well cold since we only get one warm up lap and then three timed laps from a standing start (so we're never going to get the brakes really hot on the track) and they have to have decent enough street manners for the 500 miles a day of transit driving. We're looking a pads and rotors as consumables for the week and will probably end up needing at least a front pad change at one point or another.

I think that the cold performance aspect is the most difficult part of it... the "warm up" lap is also the only orientation lap we have so we have to come out hard right out of the pits.

We're getting close now and hopefully will have something to try at Buttonwillow next month.

[JohnUlaszek]

Today is 2012.WOW it has been a while.

WOW indeed.

[hemicuda]

most of you do not know monkey shi- on brakes and the amazing thing is you people think that you do!Scary!very scary!I would not want to race a datsun b210 on the same track as most of you!Most of you know NOTHING ABOUT BRAKE PADS,NOTHING ABOUT BRAKE CALIPER AND MOST OF ALL KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BRAKE ROTORS!!!!!!!.aLL YOU GUYS DO IS waste PAD MANUFACTURERS TIME ON silly questions and never not never consulted the rotoe maker to see what works and not works.Stupid thoughts!That is why people in the brake business look at you and laugh there asses off.they know that they will be selling lots and lots of parts to people who thoght they knew more than them!This is why brembo made last year 1.7 billion in sales.more than likely to half of you!

[hemicuda]

if i were to go to one of these events you can point out my car right away............the one where the brakes are NOT glowing,heat is not pouring out of the wheels and the one where the rims are not covered in brake dust and not squeaking as I am driving.Some of you guys just do not get it.Just beacuse some one has the most expansive set of brakes does not make hin the smartest.what ever,waste your money ,you know whats best...right mr.meetoo!

[HarleyR]

Wow what a ***** storm..... Im not really taking the time to read all of the thread...In my experences..Alcon Makes Nice stuff.... expensive.. but nice... I belive you can get equal or better results for less expense ny running a Brembo/AP System.... Also In my personal experence Wilwood brakes suck....Ive spent the last 10 or so years in various garage area in NASCARS top 3 series...They work ok on Modifieds and late models but You NEVER see Wilwood stuff on cars that auctually run good.... maybe on some start and park stuff or Back markers but Brembo AP Raybestos/Alcon And PFC are the only ones you'll see on cars...the choices in pad manufactures changes daily..

[hemicuda]

I doubt that you have been to a busch north event,ANY modified race ever or craftsman truck event.Not sure to how many but a lot of the truck teams are running wilwood parts.MAt be the one that YOU saw were more than likely installed or serviced wrong.WERE the garages you saw on TV!CAuse it was not in reality?Modifieds do not run good?Ah I should have known another person who NEVER went to a modified event.Another Mr.Meetoo. you know for people who bad mouth parts you guys sure buy a lot of these parts from people you DO NOT LIKE.

[phenometron]

I'll say one thing, I get TONS of information once you guys get fired up. If nothing else, I have to thank Hemicuda for stirring up the hornet's nest. And thanks to all of the knowledgeable folks who jumped in! This is all new to me, and I'm planning a brake upgrade down the road for my Riv...I take this stuff in like a sponge! Education is key!

[chicane67]

This has got to be the most entertaining thread I have read in quite some time.

I believe that it is somewhat obvious of what we think and feel for a 24 post veteran that has not supplied any amount of tech to a technical discussion. Yet... has spewed non-sensical dribble all while defending a mere "opinion."

Please "hemicuda"... expound on your education and experience to back up ANYTHING that has fallen out of your mouth thus far.

Those of us with the education and experience are dying to know.

[Twentyover]

...I take this stuff in like a sponge! Education is key!

Just be sure to separate the wheat from the chaff. Don't believe what you read on this, or any other website, withot doing your own research. Understand what changes you want to make, and why, before you open your wallet

Lot of emotion on this thread, lots of people like or dislike one manufacturer or another. Unless they can provide objective reasons why they like or dislike a product, the stated opinion is just that, a baseless opinion. There's also an exposure variable. Some posters may have been exposed to a limited number o permutations. These opinions can be weighted at to the advantages and disadvantages of the products they have exposure to, but their opinions on products they have not been exposed to should be challenged.

[HarleyR]

When I say Garages that means the track.... I get to spend all next week in sunny Daytona.... Thank god Ive never been to a Busch North race on purpose... The modified race at Loudon is usually free entertainment between practices for us... And I hope they never go back to Bristol..that was the worse race Ive ever seen....But somewhere along the way I won 4 Winston West championships(99-00-01-03) 17 or so races.... won 9 or 10 truck races.... lost a championship by a few points in the last race at Homestead... a few other tid bits along the way... To clame that parts are installed or serviced wrong... we are talking brake systems... The stuff uses standard mounts.... maybe a few shims here and there how hard is it to rebuild 4 seals and pucks? Jesus christ everything else has arrows on it... bleed screws up... not rocket science....Theres nothing better than trying to bleed some old clapped out Intergra caliper from those retarded 1/4 inch bleed screws and watch the caliper flex...You should seriously move down to NC and go door to door to these shops and sell Wilwoods stuff for them... because the last guy that did it.... cant remember his name..... but he works for AP now....

[cheapthrillz]

Awwwwww..... Is Timmy gone already? So sad.... I just shed a tear....

[Larry Callahan]

Yeah, he left and wanted his account deleted. I guess you can't please everyone.