alcon vs. others

[64malibu]

has anyone put alcon 6 pistons on anything?

[NOGO]

The Roush Mustangs used to have them as an option (Im not sure if they do anymore).

[MuscleRodz]

Baer top of the line used to be Alcon until they started making their 6S caliper in house.

[64malibu]

so they are just as good as baer?

[ProdigyCustoms]

The Wilwood W6A Calipers are awesome, Compete with the biggest brake names in the world, and cost way less.


The infamous MotiV8r

[silver69camaro]

so they are just as good as baer?

I don't really consider them in the same league.

If you are building a serious track car...with a big emphasis on serious...the Alcons are a good choice. Otherwise, save yourself the money and buy a good set of Wilwoods. I'm with Frank on the W6A's, they're very nice.

[vintageracer]

If you are willing to "cobble" a brake system together try some of the resellers of slightly used one owner Nascar parts in NC. There are LOT'S of brake calipers in every configuration you can imagine.

A little negotiating goes a long way on price. Remember this stuff has already been paid for once!

Now I know everyone will wonder about my use of the word "cobble". In some cases you will have to be creative in making mounting brackets and choosing rotors. Just remember that most of this stuff is for 15 inch wheels that Nascar runs.

Wilwood, Brembo, Alcon, they all are laying all over the shelves in these reseller's stores.

Depending upon your budget and project is "may" be worth a look!

[64malibu]

right about the used brakes in nc I got a set of rear 4 piston h-types for cheappppppp

[TitoJones]

I'm going to go against the common thought here and say I love my Alcons. I run a 4 piston version with light track pads on my daily driver. The pads are very squeaky, super dusty, but the performance is amazing. I'm more worried that the guy behind me will rear end me than I am about not stopping in time.

I also feel that Baer, Alcon, AP, and Brembo are worlds better on a track car than any of the 6 piston Wilwood setups. Bad Penny had some serious brake fade on his Wilwood brakes on the track at Gingerman and it got upgraded to the new 6 piston Baer calipers on all 4 corners. The One Lap Camaro is running AP Racing 6 piston/4 piston setup and the performance on that will slow the earth's rotation.

Tyler

[Payton King]

pad compound and heat more than caliper type. He was running a BP-20 pad that did not have the heat rating for what he was doing on the open track. A "B" or an "H" pad would have made a world of difference.

I do not have a dog in this fight, just making a statement as to why there was fade. All of the above are good choices with varying costs of entry.

[hemicuda]

After oning wilwood on ALL of my nascar modifieds I would say that wilwood is second to NONE!!!Bear,BRENBO ,and alcon would not last a weekend on our cars.The fastest type of racing,nascar cup cars ALL run wilwood.3600lb cars,200mph and out of 48 cars,47run wilwood.Alcon,bear and brembo are WAY OVER PRICED for a moderate part.Brembo is an or was italian brake company that used to make the brake for fiat.That tells you something about them!Wilwood has been around the longest,bulids the best IN THE WORLD and stands behind their product!When we tried alcons on our modified,they blew apart!After one race,they were squeaking and dripping fluid.We ripped them off and put backon the wilwood calipers.This car bad penny,did he have the right pads on the car?Did he have the correct rotors to match the pads?Is he running the right master cyclinder?I own a 1999 camaro ss with 6piston wilwood/14"rotor front and 13" rotor 4 piston calipers in the rear and we beat the shi- out of it and NEVER ,EVER had fade!!I see all these protouring cars and with out it seeing like I am bashing people or some companies,I wonder how many people have the wrong parts mis matched to there cars so the seem cool looking!We all are gulity of wanting to put big brakes on our cars with this illusion that they will stop better.On my ss,we ran some cheap cross drilled and slotted rotors and real good hawk pads ,then switched to the wilwood system and I truly believe the car did not improve that much that is worth talking about.The Idea of stopping with these cars is to get the heat out of the pad AND GASSES out of the contact area.This is orrealevant weather it is 10 " or 18".Some nascar teams were trying out carbon fiber and kevlar and saw big improvements.On a 12"rotor.not 14 or bigger but a smaller one.I have a frind of mine who is buliding a 1984 gmc indy hauler truck and is running wilwood d-52 calipers(bolts on where factory was.same spindle)with bear rotors in front with hawk pads,in the rear CROSS DRILLED BRAKE DRUMS.........thats right cross drilled with carbon fiber pressed brake shoes.In other words factory type system,disc-drum.I will bet he will stop as good if not the same with his than me with mine.this all come from years of racing north east modifieds.But just a thought?????????????????????????????????????

[hemicuda]

I will and could stop the earth with 11"rotors and cheap pads if YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[hemicuda]

sorry for some words on my answers but i can not see too much with out my glasses.sorry!!

[TitoJones]

After *owning* wilwood on ALL of my nascar modifieds I would say that wilwood is second to NONE!!! *Baer Brembo* ,and alcon would not last a weekend on our cars. The fastest type of racing,nascar cup cars ALL run wilwood.3600lb cars,200mph and out of 48 cars,47run wilwood.Alcon,*Baer* and brembo are WAY OVER PRICED for a moderate part.Brembo is an or was italian brake company that used to make the brake for fiat.That tells you something about them!Wilwood has been around the longest, *builds* the best IN THE WORLD and stands behind their product!When we tried alcons on our modified,they blew apart!After one race,they were squeaking and dripping fluid.We ripped them off and put backon the wilwood calipers.

- All * are spelling corrections by me.

You are joking me right?

Which of these 2 Florida based tracks use more brakes?

Sebring for 12 hours straight:


Or Daytona for 3 hours straight?


Wilwood being on NASCAR has f*ck all to do with good braking on a circle track. You think think that they use the brakes even 1/8 as much as a LMS car does?
Go look at every race winning 24 LeMans car. You know what they all have in common? Not one of them use Wilwood, and they almost all use Brembo and AP.

Any ALMS car will use the brakes 300% harder than any NASCAR racing car will including the road course tracks. You are also comparing the full race caliper and rotor from the Wilwood line that has no dust boots, no seals, carbon rotors, and race only pads. Even with that comparison, the Brembo/AP line will dominate those with comparable compounds. As to your statement about Wilwood being in it longer than Brembo- Not even close. 1961 is when Brembo started this game; That's 49 years. Wilwood? Just coming up on 30 years.

Please post part numbers and a picture of this exploded Alcon caliper you used. I have to see this first hand.

This car bad penny,did he have the right pads on the car?Did he have the correct rotors to match the pads?Is he running the right master cyclinder?I own a 1999 camaro ss with 6piston wilwood/14"rotor front and 13" rotor 4 piston calipers in the rear and we beat the shi- out of it and NEVER ,EVER had fade!! On my ss,we ran some cheap cross drilled and slotted rotors and real good hawk pads ,then switched to the wilwood system and I truly believe the car did not improve that much that is worth talking about.

Did he have the 'right' pads on the car? Probably not ideal, no. But every other part was up to speed, tested, and sorted on a track. The car has won many events, is driven harder than most any car on this site and is well documented.

You stated that you beat the sh*t out of your 4th gen. What track do you take it to? What times were you posting at said track? Please tell me how you managed to run crossdrilled rotors without them cracking or failing on a car you put through the paces so regularly. Am I getting your statement right that you had Hawk pads and aftermarket rotors on an otherwise factory 4th gen Camaro brake system (2 piston front, single piston rear) and after installing 6 piston/4 piston Wilwoods that it was nearly identical, or so marginal it barely warrants a mention? Hell, I'm sold on it then.

I have a frind of mine who is buliding a 1984 gmc indy hauler truck and is running wilwood d-52 calipers(bolts on where factory was.same spindle)with bear rotors in front with hawk pads,in the rear CROSS DRILLED BRAKE DRUMS.........thats right cross drilled with carbon fiber pressed brake shoes.In other words factory type system,disc-drum.I will bet he will stop as good if not the same with his than me with mine.this all come from years of racing north east modifieds.But just a thought?????????????????????????????????????

Oh my god. Cross drilled DRUMS? Tell your buddy to stop building anything that rolls on a public highway. Better yet, post a picture of that. I want to make fun of it on Corner-Carvers with my assh*le friends.


There is a reason Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, ZR1 Corvettes, and many other super cars run Brembo as factory equipment, and it isn't because they suck.

Tyler

[67bird]

Not to jack the thread, but Tyler would you happen to know the part numbers for the AP stuff that One Lap is using?

[TitoJones]

Fronts are AP6000S and rears are AP6050S.

Tyler

[jknight16]

Wow, there are so many inaccuracies and unfounded statements in there I wouldn't even know where to start.

Back to the OP's question, we don't see a lot of Alcon 6 piston calipers with Baer and Wilwood's competing 6 piston calipers being generally more affordable. But if you wanted to use the Alcons, I'm sure they would be at least as effective as their more affordable competitors. The AP and Brembo stuff is the bees knees.

[Matt@BOS]

At the end of the day, as other here have demonstrated, all of the various applications are quite capable. I suppose what I'm getting at is, what is your target use? and what are you willing to put up with on the street.

I've got a set of 4 piston APs on my Mustang, and like Tyler's Alcons they squeak, and make more dust than I ever thought possible, but they do stop incredibly well. I don't think that AP and Alcon have the same variety of pads to choose from though, but I haven't looked too hard. So, if pad selection, clean wheels, and quiet brakes that still stop well on the street are your primary concern, maybe look towards Baer, 6Ps that use regular C6 pads.

Matt

[wendell]

After oning wilwood on ALL of my nascar modifieds I would say that wilwood is second to NONE!!!Bear,BRENBO ,and alcon would not last a weekend on our cars.The fastest type of racing,nascar cup cars ALL run wilwood.3600lb cars,200mph and out of 48 cars,47run wilwood.Alcon,bear and brembo are WAY OVER PRICED for a moderate part.Brembo is an or was italian brake company that used to make the brake for fiat.That tells you something about them!Wilwood has been around the longest,bulids the best IN THE WORLD and stands behind their product!When we tried alcons on our modified,they blew apart!After one race,they were squeaking and dripping fluid.We ripped them off and put backon the wilwood calipers.This car bad penny,did he have the right pads on the car?Did he have the correct rotors to match the pads?Is he running the right master cyclinder?I own a 1999 camaro ss with 6piston wilwood/14"rotor front and 13" rotor 4 piston calipers in the rear and we beat the shi- out of it and NEVER ,EVER had fade!!I see all these protouring cars and with out it seeing like I am bashing people or some companies,I wonder how many people have the wrong parts mis matched to there cars so the seem cool looking!We all are gulity of wanting to put big brakes on our cars with this illusion that they will stop better.On my ss,we ran some cheap cross drilled and slotted rotors and real good hawk pads ,then switched to the wilwood system and I truly believe the car did not improve that much that is worth talking about.The Idea of stopping with these cars is to get the heat out of the pad AND GASSES out of the contact area.This is orrealevant weather it is 10 " or 18".Some nascar teams were trying out carbon fiber and kevlar and saw big improvements.On a 12"rotor.not 14 or bigger but a smaller one.I have a frind of mine who is buliding a 1984 gmc indy hauler truck and is running wilwood d-52 calipers(bolts on where factory was.same spindle)with bear rotors in front with hawk pads,in the rear CROSS DRILLED BRAKE DRUMS.........thats right cross drilled with carbon fiber pressed brake shoes.In other words factory type system,disc-drum.I will bet he will stop as good if not the same with his than me with mine.this all come from years of racing north east modifieds.But just a thought?????????????????????????????????????

Based in this post you're either; trying to troll something up, work for Wilwood or sleep with a guy that works for Wilwood. Any way your slice it, understanding, much less beleiving what you wrote, is very difficult.

[vintageracer]

Nascar changes their preferences also.

3 years ago Brembo was all the rage in Nascar. Before that Alcon and before that Wilwood. Given the cycle it's probably Wilwood's turn to be all the rage.

Just go to the Nascar resellers to see what's is out of favor at the moment. With the exception of short tracks and the 2 road courses properly gearing the car and turn in for the specific track is important than the brakes since brakes slow momemtun.

After all, isn't the Nascar Sprint Cup division now just momentum racing since nobody is able to pass on their own???