Pro-touring is dead

[Shiro666]

West Coast Jesus Mandalls.

Freiburger is wack.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

then SURELY hes seen what we have been talking about on here..

cmon Frenchfry... you gonna tell us that what would Jesus do when buying his shoes at the mall?

cause you definitely know the answer to that one..

[6'9"Witha69]

Amir, you crack me up!!!

[barraza]

Freiburger actually chimed in on TC: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295148

Five pages of piling on about something that was never said in the article. In the above response on the chevelle board frieburger says some thing that also apply here:

Hey, dudes. Sorry some of you didn't like the thing, but that's ok. A few seem to think that if it's in the magazine, we're telling you what you SHOULD like. Not really. We're just noting a trend and acting on it. .....................................It's advisable to actually read the stuff prior to bashing.

Wow, doesn't this kind of thing make us look smart!

[Rhino]

Five pages of piling on about something that was never said in the article.

While you are correct, the article doesn't exist in a vacuum. His opinion of the build style is widely known through previous comments. It's not as much as what is in print as is what's "between the lines"

[Taman]

If Pro-touring is dead, then why all the new suspension components for going around corners fast? I have always liked the drag race look but, try going around a corner with those skinny fronts. My TA is getting a G-suspension. I want to be able to go low 11's and pull 1 G around the corners. Try doing that with a drag setup! As far as Frieburger. He says anything to sell magazines. He reminds me of the kid in High Scool that got his butt kicked every day in School and now has something everybody wants. A spot in Hot Rod. When I won the Pontiac engine from Hot Rod's Win Your dream Engine Sweepstakes, Dave was a real jerk to me. I even spent the money to fly from Chicago to LA for the dyno session and magazine shoot. I guess unless you have a big dollar car, he wants nothing to do with you.

[Ron L]

Labeling your car to fit into a certain group will most certainly cause trouble and twisted panties. Just build a car and enjoy it, who cares who says your (insert magazine term here) car is "dead", did you give it that term in the first place? I call mine "piece of sh$#" hence forever securing my status in the automotive hobby.

[barraza]

While you are correct, the article doesn't exist in a vacuum. His opinion of the build style is widely known through previous comments. It's not as much as what is in print as is what's "between the lines"

B.S.

It was an article about retro cars from the 70's and 80's. Just because we here at PT.com like our style of cars, doesn't mean the rest of the world loves them. Are PT builds the only thing that should be featured in the mags? What a boring world that would be. Just because you know whats "between the lines" is no reason for the personal attacks. HR has featured plenty of protouring type vehicles over the years.

Don't you see that the original posters intent was to see how much of a rise he could get out of the knee jerk reaction before anyone noticed his post was pure bull****? He has a grand total of ONE post here, but he has been looking in to see the reaction. He is probably still laughing.

[Rhino]

Speaking of Knee jerk reactions... barraza, would you kindly point me to which portion of my statement is BS? The one about his opinion being known, or the one where the article doesn't sum up everything about a person? FYI, I've read the issue in question. If you would have read any of my other comments you would have found a few things.

1.) I never commented on him personally, only his opinion.
You're right that that a guy doing his job doesn't deserve personal ridicule

2.) I've commented that I respect other build styles, and the thought that in 20 years from now we'll probably all sit back and laugh about some of the current trends. I would venture to say my automotive interests are rather diverse. Some builds might not be my cup of tea, but sure hope people aren't building cars just because I think they're cool.

If he laughs about some of these reactions... let him laugh. I'm on the other side of the table and joining in. The difference is that he's doing it for nothing more than a reaction and obviously has nothing better to do with his time.

/threadjack

[barraza]

Rhino
Your comment implies that this thread has legimate beefs because of something Frieburger said in the past. The FACT is that this entire bitch session is about an erroneous assertion, ie that he said PT is dead in the latest edition, and that is HR's position. It's silly when you look at the whole magazine and see the same issue has an EFI install on a 65 malibu, and the Keisler cuda with a 6.1 hemi that could be considered PT.

Look at any of the threads about what "defines" PT and you can see we don't even have a cohesive definition ourselves. I think the backlash against PT in the media is similar to the backlash against billet street rods that spawned the "rat" look.

[Rhino]

I was simply pointing out that you can't determine someone's intentions from one issue of one magazine. In my opinion, it's not the actual article prompting most people's reactions, rather it's his past statements. It was also an attempt to bring the discussion back to a slightly more fact based discussion.

I think we're just on two sides of the same coin.

[firewood]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.

[Ron L]

REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,)

Why is that stupid?

[firewood]

Putting a rear spoiler on a FWD car increases downforce on the wrong end of the car. A very common 'ricer' mod.

[JohnUlaszek]

Pro-Touring is dead!

Long Live Pro-Touring!

[Damn True]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.

CannI'uh gett'a Aaaamen'uh!?!?

Allthepeoplesay....

[Ron L]

Putting a rear spoiler on a FWD car increases downforce on the wrong end of the car. A very common 'ricer' mod.

Front spoilers on RWD cars are wrong, then? How about FWD touring cars with rear wings?

[TonyHuntimer]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.

Well played Kurt!

Now, would all of youz guyz please let this thread die! We all know DF is not a fan of Pro-Touring. That was established years ago. You're not going to change his mind by keeping this going. This thread was started by somebody who never posted on this forum and hasn't posted again since. This person who will remain nameless is just trying to get everyone upset. The longer this thread lives and causes you guys to start arguing...the dumbererer we look. In fact, if we can't be civil about a moot post...we'll be forced to lock down.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

why?

just so jesus will bring hotrod back from the dead to get his shoes back from frieburger?

I think jesus is a pt fan personally.. he will resurrect the Crusher camaro himself.. then slap the **** outta DF.


I keep playing it over and over in my mind... thats the only way itll end.. im sure of it!

[Roadrage David]

as a European , i must say that Pro-touring is not a trent but a nesasety and a ivolution!!! in muscle cars, IF we whant to take the muscle cars of the past into this century, insted of into a museum.
The divelopt pro-touring parts have found there way not only in the pro touring seen but in EVERY OTHER seen that hase anything to do with v8 cars .
the Pro-touring theme might be ubsorbt in other seens, in sutcha way that useing these divelopt parts, wil be the rule, but its influence can not be ignored .. what the editor of that magazine thusend seem to realize that out side the USA in the likes of europe the folow up seen walks about 5 to 7 years behind!! so taking that in consideration the seen is stil ecspending and growing!!!!!.