Crossbreading acceptable??

[ProTouring442]

My honest opinion... Who Cares! It's your car, paint it pink and put green flames on it if you want! Make it fast, and run them over when they whine about your choice of engine.

Seriously, I put a BBC in my Olds. Why? I had one, and they're reasonable to build. Would I love to do some sort of Olds engine? Sure, and I'll swap anyone even up for the BBC if they'll give me my list of "stuff." But, since my list would probably amount to a $25,000.00 engine, I don't think I'll have any takers!

Build it your way, not the groups way. When I started my endless project, everyone thought I was crazy for making a car that would go around corners, not just fast in a straight line. Everyone said to "tub it and run some M/Ts on the back. Glad I didn't listen to the group!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Bandit]

......last but not least haveing a chebby in your poncho these days is defenatly not cool you WILL be the step child forever not having a real poncho nore a chebby,,,,,,,,,..............

First off, having a Chevy engine in a Pontiac is NOT a true crossbreed, IMHO. It's all in the family, GM to GM. Pontiac used Olds and Chevy engines in their cars from the factory, so why not do it? Second, no one cares anyway--it does not make you "uncool," except for in the eyes of crazy Pontiac purists who let their love for ponchos limit their options for performance.

[Roadrage David]

so Pontiac purists are Limited on performance optiond huh. tell this to these guys. http://jbp-pontiac.com/ while your ad it chek there 2800 hp twin turbo engine. ore these guys http://www.allpontiac.com/ last but defenatly not not least i figured out wrong that somebody at least would look at the previus link i placed http://vari-lift.com/ i gues the arogens of the massa,s dindt bother picking up on this fine piece of engeneering.......

[Damn True]

This bad-boy in a GTO


Or this in an early Trans-AM

[6'9"Witha69]

so Pontiac purists are Limited on performance optiond huh. tell this to these guys. http://jbp-pontiac.com/ while your ad it chek there 2800 hp twin turbo engine. ore these guys http://www.allpontiac.com/ last but defenatly not not least i figured out wrong that somebody at least would look at the previus link i placed http://vari-lift.com/ i gues the arogens of the massa,s dindt bother picking up on this fine piece of engeneering.......

All this in what, the last 3 years? It is not like there hasn't been a market for it just as long as the Chevy stuff, so why is it that Poncho stuff is only now coming into it's own, while Chevy engineering and inginuity has been around for decades? Has there been no motivation in the aftermarket for Poncho stuff till now? Is it that hard to make a Poncho good that it takes 25 years longer to figure out making them fast? Maybe more people wanted Chevy parts so Poncho stuff was put on hold by all except those in the same fanatical camp.

It is those who love their Ponchos too much and resemble the Spanish Inquisition making all the noise in the debate. Has Pontiac been the stepchild for so long that they all have to hate the Prodigal child? Must be envy fueling the anger.

Do whatever makes you feel good. At the end of the day, it's your car.

[Roadrage David]

(All this in what, the last 3 years?) ....nop 6 years.... (It is not like there hasn't been a market for it just as long as the Chevy stuff, so why is it that Poncho stuff is only now coming into it's own),...... because the market is ore WAS indeed smaller sins the PMD was terminated. it was comen sense that afthermarked part manufactors invested in chevy to make money.. it is mutch more ecspensife and low profiteble to divelop parts for the money making companys, all the new parts with the ecseption of the edelb heads and edel manifolds are ALL divelopd by private vendors and pontiac entusiasts who work with smaller budged,s..( while Chevy engineering and inginuity has been around for decades? Has there been no motivation in the aftermarket for Poncho stuff till now?)...... motivation hase nothing to do with it but as mention above money hase,,,, the potenty of the pontiac engine was never in question...( Is it that hard to make a Poncho good that it takes 25 years longer to figure out making them fast?).. pontiacs have always been fast so fast that GM always puled the plug more then ones when they become a sells tread to chevy. take a look at the 60/63 sd raceing program/ the GM ban on pontiac stiking 428ci engines in firebirds and GTO,s to keep chevelle and camaro sell nrs up, the transam raceing series ram airv engine ban...the pontiac fiero,s divelopmend became a seriues tread to the corvette if the 89/90 type mid engine car would have been brought in production/ pulling pontiac out of nascar was another one (Maybe more people wanted Chevy parts so Poncho stuff was put on hold by all except those in the same fanatical camp)... the only rezen pontiac (forced by GM) used oldsmobile 403 engines was that GM alredy disieded to terminate the individual GM motor divisions to save money and cut loses. there where plenty olds engines laying around to be used up. afther the gm motor divisions termination the chevy small block was chosen because it was cheap to build.yet in its ""stock"" option infiruer to the pontiac engine disign polution ecetera . hensh the rezen why sec gen camaro was running 350ci small blocks and the firebird with the 400 and 455 ci. look at the 455 sd transam program. never the less comersial whize the sbc was is the most sucsesfull comersional engine ever made this thusend nesersary make it the best engine!!!.... chevy hase always been the bigest GM brand and if Pontiac ore any other GM brand came out strong ore sometimes stronger GM as usual pulled the plug..... people today are discovering the traditional pontiac,s engines potentional and together with the afthermarket parts the pontiac comunity is growing!! rapitly. they are not on the chevy and Ford level yet but give it a couple of more years and it will be. defenatly a force to be recond with, and insted of douwngrading it everybody should embrace it...

(It is those who love their Ponchos too much and resemble the Spanish Inquisition making all the noise in the debate. Has Pontiac been the stepchild for so long that they all have to hate the Prodigal child? Must be envy fueling the anger. ) Pontiac was never alouwd to grow , ore serieus compeat for the leading brand in the GM groop. iventho they more then ones with mutchs smaller budgeds proved to be able to produce a beter product again more then ones... it is difeculd to see if your not into pontiacs , but if you are you see that so mutch potentional hase been terminated for the sake of yes money!!! witchs is frustrating . every brand hase its sucses storys and fans, but to belive that chevy is the only option to make power for e pontiac car is ignorend and redicules , please ecscuse me for my bad spelling and wrighting im dutch and dislectic... David

[Bandit]

every brand hase its sucses storys and fans, but to belive that chevy is the only option to make power for e pontiac car is ignorend and redicules... David

Nobody is saying Chevy's the only option, just that you have a lot MORE options with Chevy and they can be built for less money in general. If you want to buy me a 600 hp Butler 455 I will be thrilled to run it til it blows. I would like a 467 with forged crank, please. It's only $8,350...

[andrewb70]

This thread cracks me up.

Andrew

[Roadrage David]

Nobody is saying Chevy's the only option, just that you have a lot MORE options with Chevy and they can be built for less money in general. If you want to buy me a 600 hp Butler 455 I will be thrilled to run it til it blows. I would like a 467 with forged crank, please. It's only $8,350...

what is wrong with that!! at the 500 hp level the costs are the same!!!. so you ""might"" pay a little more. in the end you have more retail valiuew haveing a poncho mill in a pontiac.quote, Nobody is saying that chevy is the only option , first thing you see whe this guy asks for engine advice is PUT A CHEVY IN IT. pontiac,s cant make power. .... lets face it this forum is about a ecspensife hobby no way you can build a pro-touring car ""cheap"".. so why moning that pontiac engine parts are ecspenfi . .. the way i see it is when you make these kinds of statemends is that you eather trying to cut corners and be CHEAP,,,, ORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW ANY BETTER.......

[Benoit23]

I’m no purest but, unless your doing a original restore I say mix it up if you want.

[andrewb70]

what is wrong with that!! at the 500 hp level the costs are the same!!!. so you ""might"" pay a little more. in the end you have more retail valiuew haveing a poncho mill in a pontiac.quote, Nobody is saying that chevy is the only option , first thing you see whe this guy asks for engine advice is PUT A CHEVY IN IT. pontiac,s cant make power. .... lets face it this forum is about a ecspensife hobby no way you can build a pro-touring car ""cheap"".. so why moning that pontiac engine parts are ecspenfi . .. the way i see it is when you make these kinds of statemends is that you eather trying to cut corners and be CHEAP,,,, ORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW ANY BETTER.......

500HP on an engine dyno is an LS1 with heads and cam. If your starting from scratch its the only way to go if you don't care about nomenclature and nostalgia.

Andrew

[Roadrage David]

Andrew there are many if,s...personaly i have no problem with a modern incorporated GM engine in a gm muscle car, but there is plenty divelopmend left useing the ""traditional"" gm core.s like the Pontiac engine to fooll around with, with aded modern tegnology like the V-tec rokker system for the inun engine..

[MonzaRacer]

In all honesty I like the idea of building a Pontiac. Even if the heads are a little more (not much ) a set of aftermarket AFRs or such BUT a Pontiac small journal 455 with preped Arma-Cast rods can make in the range of 500 to 600 hp but is a little on the ragged edge for reliabilityBUT if you plan it properly the self same engine can be built with mostly stock parts, cast (or Hypertec) pistons have a red line of 5500 and make well over 500 lb ft of torque.
My machinst ran a 64 Tempest with a 400 Pontiac, Crane SuperFlow preped RA4 heads, a one off Lunati solid cam thats way wild and the biggest flat tappet cam without going roller, it had Arma cast rods with good rod bolts,hard chromed nodular crank, 13 to 1 forged pistons and ran a 4 speed Muncie and 488 gears and held a 11 1/2 lb class record in southern Indiana and this engines ONLY failure was it liked to spin rods (not due to rod failure, crank failure hence the chrome crank) and he launched it at 7500 and shifted at 8500 ever run.
This car ran low 7's or high 6's in 1/8th carrying 4100 lbs and old 60s rock hard slicks. A similar engine (same cam and better heads but same bottom end) in a similar car but lightened up to the current 3200 lbs and it will pull the wheels and keep them up(well it does have a Jerico tans now) past half track, pulls 1.18 60 fts and runs 5.30s (1/8th) all day. And theengine has been together for 4 years with only regular freshen ups, of bearings, rings, rod bolts, valve springs once a year(well it cracked a piston year before last) and this is the 5th year going racing.
We did some extra prep to the Arma Cast rods but polishing the rods and shot peening and then cryogenic tempering (his company sends parts by the ton so a few extra never got noticed) and the crank was dry film coated.
The engine was built with a budget in mind for the most part but would have cost maybe another $350 to $500 if he had to pay for everything..
But in all honesty the engine could be reproduced for less than $6k max and a few better parts in it. But gee whiz the Pontiac is a super torque engine.
And another thing, one of the reasons for Pontiacs not getting any help in the aftermarket (they actually had just as many parts a SBC or BBC) except heads till Edelbrock revamped the RA4 pieces was because they got dropped from production in '78.
It was rumored they didnt meet emission standards but this was false. The big thing about the Pontiacs, Olds and Buicks and even the big Caddies was that we had n more 5k or 6k lb cars to lug around and didnt need big torque engines anymore. A 305 smog engine would pull a 3500 lb Gbody or Fbody plenty good and when the overdrives came out with low firsts and the overdrive they lived a lot better too.
A true Pontiac engine was built with 4 in bore and a 3.5 stroke and used standard 4X heads and they used typical 80s "technology" for the cam and such and the engine still made over 400 lb ft of torque and got high teens mileage and actually needed less emissions equipment over the SBC, one due in part to the nice clean machined combustion chambers. anmd teamed with overdrive the "proto type car was a mid 80s Pontiac Gbody and the tech writers loved the power and the fact that Pontiac wanted to revive the Pontiac engine (more specificly for the NASCAR revolution coming) as it was a torque producer.
They built 7 358 in round track engines in several configureations and the cars made better mileage, used less fuel, and actually never broke any parts as the engines didnt need to turn as hard to make power.
They wouldnt out accelerate a Chevy BUT would pull like freight trains after hitting speed. And walk off from the olther brands.
GM finally killed it cause they did nt see any benifit to retooling for the Pontiac.
And the tooling/development chain still remainss for the SBC. And the aftermarket Pontiac lovers are building and developing the Poncho.
I like thme and wish I could put another one together as I have several parts ,like a chrome crank, spare block,severla sets of heads etclaying around but dont have any cash.
Lee

[Roadrage David]

some time ago my frind copyd the car craft 501 hp pontiac resepy with 577 lbs feet of torque with right out of the box parts. stock bottom end edelheads ecetera i belive 5000 usd!!!!!!thing runs like a beast.....

[chop]

I used to be firmly on the side of a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac. In the last fews years I have changed my opinion. The LS1 is just too good not to consider, and for the latest technology is the only GM option. I am dropping one in my 69 Firebird. Still can't wrap my head around an LS1 in a Ford though.