Project Chili Pepper

[TomT]

The frame jig is amazing and a great idea. You can always use it as a heavy duty bed frame when you're done...

It does look like a bed frame at this point! The photos are deceiving though. It's actually about 15 feet long!

[TomT]

Great work!! I love your frame table.

-matt

Thanks Matt!

[TomT]

I'd rather see the height adjusters screwed down to the minimum heights that still give you a level plane to work from. There will be horizontal forces applied to it from time to time, which will try to bend the bolts. When you can't avoid loading threaded fasteners in bending you should at least minimize it. I am assuming that the frame will be sitting on the I-beams when you drop the body on it and jockey it into position . . .


Norm

Norm - They pretty much are at the minimum. If you look at the close-up photo there are only a couple threads showing between the jam nut at the top and the flats on the stud at the bottom (some of the space between the two is a shoulder that is not threaded but it is still less than 1/8"). I also went heavy on the feet - they have 3/4" studs and are rated at 10,000 lbs each (as long as you don't have more than 2" of thread showing on the studs). The total length of the studs is 4". The DOM has a full 2" of thread which is 2.67x what is necessary for maximum strength (based on the rule of thumb that maximum strength is realized at 1x stud diameter). I figured 40,000 lbs of capacity should provide a sufficient margin of error considering that the whole car shouldn't weigh much more than 3000 lbs.

The frame will fasten to crossmembers (I'm starting out with 6 of them). I would like to add some diagonal bracing to the transverse I-beams at some point (and maybe in other areas as well). Once the frame is mounted to the jig I would think (and hope) that we would be able to tell if any more bracing was needed.

Tom

[COPO-RAT]

Awesome project! I love that body style malibu......of course, I had one that I should've kept.........the rendering is SICK as well! Great stuff.

[TomT]

Awesome project! I love that body style malibu......of course, I had one that I should've kept.........the rendering is SICK as well! Great stuff.

Thanks Jason. We're really itching to get it done and start driving and racing!
Tom

[TomT]

Wow Norm - you are the original owner of your Malibu? That is very cool! I've actually wanted one for a long time (and finally just recently found the right one). Nearly ten years ago I told a friend of mine I wanted to build one pro-touring style with an LS and a 6MT and he looked at me like I was stark raving mad. I just think the lightweight G-Body Malibu is super cool and it is exactly what I wanted (even if somewhat off the well-beaten path).

Strictly speaking, the GNX arrangement isn't either a torque arm or a 3-link due to the fact that the center longitudinal piece is fixed on the axle and pinned (piece 14 in the diagram gives the arm no capability to 'plunge' fore/aft like a true torque arm). Think of it as a single center-mounted ladder bar, with the chassis side location carefully chosen to minimize bind vs the LCAs in bump.

Kirban at least used to offer a copy of the GNX suspension, and you could certainly use the diff insert plate from which to work up a true torque arm. It might even be possible able to just use the upper hole for the axle side pivot for a real third link, depending on how strong those ears are.

I think there's another option, at least I've seen where some work was being done about swapping in a Ford 8.8". Somewhere over on maliburacing.com, I think.


(there are at least two '79 Malibus that came without A/C and no antenna in the windshield. )


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Wow Norm - you are the original owner of your Malibu?

Yup. Original four speed car, built to order with as much OE performance and "heavy-duty" stuff as possible and as little else as I could manage. Wouldn't have got it in "Classic" trim except that was the only way to get one or two of the performance items. So it started life out as something of a factory sleeper, and doesn't look much different in my avatar than it did when I took delivery and drove it off the lot 32 years and change ago.


Enough about mine. I'm looking forward to seeing how your build progresses.


Norm

[CRCRFT78]

I'm definately looking forward to this build.

[Eggy44]

Any updates? looking forward to seeing another malibu that looks just like mine that is pro touring style!

[TomT]

Any updates? looking forward to seeing another malibu that looks just like mine that is pro touring style!

Hey Jake - We participated in the Run to Music City event last weekend and talked to some guys that have put 295s in the rear of their G-Body Monte Carlos with only a frame notch. Based on previous measurements I've taken I didn't think that would work on the Malibu. This weekend we test fit a set of BFG 295-35-18s in the Malibu's wheel wells (the body is on a rotiserie at the moment). They definately will NOT fit the stock tubs. The Monte Carlo tubs must be bigger (wish I could find a set). We are still planning to do mini tubs so we can run the 295s.

Our frame jig is nearing completion (I'll post some photos of that hopefully next week) and we have a BUNCH of parts coming including some cool stuff from Detroit Speed.

It seems like everything takes longer than it should! I can't wait to get the chassis up on the frame jig!

RTMC was awesome by the way!!!

[TomT]

Any updates? looking forward to seeing another malibu that looks just like mine that is pro touring style!

Jake - Do you have any photos of your Malibu posted?

[Norm Peterson]

This weekend we test fit a set of BFG 295-35-18s in the Malibu's wheel wells (the body is on a rotiserie at the moment). They definately will NOT fit the stock tubs. The Monte Carlo tubs must be bigger (which I could find a set). We still planning to do mini tubs so we can run the 295s.

Any chance the exterior sheetmetal might get flared just a little as well?

Have you settled on a front tire size yet? With the RTMC experience fresh in your mind, I think you'd want at least 255/40-18's up front on relatively wide wheels with that 295-wide rear rubber just to hold the understeer down to liveable limits.


Norm

[TomT]

Any chance the exterior sheetmetal might get flared just a little as well?

Have you settled on a front tire size yet? With the RTMC experience fresh in your mind, I think you'd want at least 255/40-18's up front on relatively wide wheels with that 295-wide rear rubber just to hold the understeer down to liveable limits.


Norm

Hey Norm,

You're right about the RTMC experience. I was driving an LS3-powered G-body with 255-45-18s on the rear and 225-40-18s in the front and I definately felt that it was under-tired. The 225s are wider than you would think though and they actually rubbed the inner fenders on the outside and the frame and sway bar on the inside. During the event the front tires actually "self-clearanced" the inner fenders (rubbed big holes in the plastic inner fenders). I didn't notice this so much on the autocross - it was mostly on the road course (where the transitions were pretty rough).

I already have a set of 245-35-18s for the front of the Chili Pepper but after RTMC I really want to run 255-35-18s but that is really going to be a challenge. We will probably have to fabricate new inner fenders for the front. Somewhere I saw where a guy notched his frame in the front to gain more steering angle. I would hate to do that but we'll just have to see.

The plan for the rear is to do mini-tubs that will fit the 295s. I really like flares on some cars but I want the body on the Chili Pepper to look stock. If I did have to do flares I would try to make them very subtle.

[Norm Peterson]

Somewhere I saw where a guy notched his frame in the front to gain more steering angle. I would hate to do that but we'll just have to see.

Once your car's steering lock becomes limited by clearance to the front sta-bar, there isn't much point in frame notching (or notching further, at least). Part of the reason that even 225's will rub on the outside is the OE G-body camber curve in bump - it starts out wanting to camber the tire the "wrong" way (outward at the top) and toward where the clearance to the inner fenders gets tight. This can be corrected via extended length ball joints or similar suspension geometry modification, with the added benefit that the amount of understeer present is reduced. www.scandc.com

Wide wheels - at or even slightly past the recommended max width for the tire size in question - will tend to reduce the inward tire deformation that comes from hard cornering. That's the sta-bar side. But I'd also look toward overdriving as contributing as well (where you end up having steered the wheels way past their peak grip and into heavy plowing front-tire-sliding understeer). Most people are guilty of doing this, at least once in a while. I know I have.

The plan for the rear is to do mini-tubs that will fit the 295s. I really like flares on some cars but I want the body on the Chili Pepper to look stock. If I did have to do flares I would try to make them very subtle.

Subtle is good, keeps the sleeper image going.


Norm

[TomT]

Once your car's steering lock becomes limited by clearance to the front sta-bar, there isn't much point in frame notching (or notching further, at least). Part of the reason that even 225's will rub on the outside is the OE G-body camber curve in bump - it starts out wanting to camber the tire the "wrong" way (outward at the top) and toward where the clearance to the inner fenders gets tight. This can be corrected via extended length ball joints or similar suspension geometry modification, with the added benefit that the amount of understeer present is reduced. www.scandc.com

I suppose if necessary we could run splined sway bars with flat arms if we need a little more steering angle but we will just have to see. We will be using taller spindles so hopefully we'll pick up enough negative camber in bump to will help with the clearance issues as you suggested.

But I'd also look toward overdriving as contributing as well (where you end up having steered the wheels way past their peak grip and into heavy plowing front-tire-sliding understeer). Most people are guilty of doing this, at least once in a while. I know I have.

I'm with you on this one. You can experiment with this in the snow at slow speeds. Too much input and the car continues to go straight. Reduce the steering input and the car will begin to turn.

Subtle is good, keeps the sleeper image going.

I think a set of 18" aluminum wheels painted body color that look like the originals with dog dish hub caps would be really cool on the Chili Pepper and definately play into the sleeper vibe.

[Eggy44]

Jake - Do you have any photos of your Malibu posted?

I don't think they are posted on here but I do have some pictures it. It has all original paint, chrome, and interior, and its all under the stock hood so it sort of still looks like that grandma car

[TomT]

Awesome Malibu Jake! Love the burnout shot! Thanks for posting the photos.

[TomT]

We finally got our frame bolted to the frame jig. Everything needs to be leveled, squared up, and locked down and there are several other stations that need a bit more fabrication but we're absolutely stoked to see it sitting up there!

One of the ways I justified building the jig (to myself) is that I needed welding practice before putting the TIG torch to the Chili Pepper's frame. It has definately helped and I have gained enough confidence that I am now pretty comfortable doing the welding on the frame myself.

[CruizinKev]

looks good! can't wait to see more!

[andrewb70]

We finally got our frame bolted to the frame jig. Everything needs to be leveled, squared up, and locked down and there are several over stations that need a bit more fabrication but we're absolutely stoked to see it sitting up there!

One of the ways I justified building the jig (to myself) is that I needed welding practice before putting the TIG torch to the Chili Pepper's frame. It has definately helped and I have gained enough confidence that I am now pretty comfortable doing the welding on the frame myself.

Tom,

The jig looks amazing!

Andrew