Vendor not delivering parts Part II

[Tony_SS]

Well said Mr.V.

I will add this about the 'calling' thing. Yes a phone call should be made, but as a customer, I think WE are owed the service, not the other way around. It's like calling AT&T when they screw up your bill.



If you are going to sell parts online or here, I think the vendors have a responsibility to communicate via email, PM or openly here in the forums. Of course you know those emails and PM as answered pretty quick when they are working for the sale... but afterwards?

[1969CamaroRS]

Forum members should be allowed to simply, and factually, post, "On this date I purchased.... and paid.....it has been x amount of days....product did or did not show up, and vender was able or not able to respond to my complaints." Something as simple, even form like, would allow for factual/objective information to be displayed...

The forum already has plenty of freely expressed praise about vender transactions, now let's work on the other side of the two-way communication dealing with fair criticism. It is the back bone of open communication. Otherwise, this forum may need to seek counseling on how to communicate fairly and openly to satisfy all parties involved.

Brett

Well said.

[novanutcase]

The way I see it....

OP paid vendor for part. His job is done.

Vendor had order in hand with delivery date

Once that date passed VENDOR has the responsibility of contacting customer to let him know that parts will be late. That is my definition of proper customer service.

WHY does the customer need to be doing the customer servicing that the vendor should be doing?

We all get busy in our workdays but if you wait 8 MONTHS to deliver a part without communicating with your customer, regardless of whether your customer tried to contact you or not, you deserve to be bashed...

JMO

Vendor rating system is sorely needed not only on this site but ANY site that has vendors that support them. Mr.V is right on track.....

Again, JMO.....

John

[GRNOVA]

The way I see it....

OP paid vendor for part. His job is done.

Vendor had order in hand with delivery date

Once that date passed VENDOR has the responsibility of contacting customer to let him know that parts will be late. That is my definition of proper customer service.

WHY does the customer need to be doing the customer servicing that the vendor should be doing?

We all get busy in our workdays but if you wait 8 MONTHS to deliver a part without communicating with your customer, regardless of whether you customer tried to contact you or not, you deserve to be bashed...

JMO

Vendor rating system is sorely needed not only on this site but ANY site that has vendors that support them. Mr.V is right on track.....

Again, JMO.....

John

This is it in a nut shell , well said John!I have been burned before and would have love to have read about the Vendor good or bad but lay it out straight, no bs! I like the take half $ up front and take the other half $ upon shipping. This way the customer still has a little to hold on to and the Vendor needs to produce in order to get paid in full! JMO

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

well if that is a problem then the mods shouldnt shut down threads that state feedback from pt.com users about vendors.

if there is no "vendor feedback or rating" for them then a thread on dealings with them should be open.. as long as the parameters are set.

the who, what, when, and how we gonna fix it parameters..

I dont think its PT.coms responsibility to provide vendor feedback.. but if you guys know someone may be getting screwed at least you should have
the guys back by giving him a place to talk about it..

again..

all I ever seen when threads like this happen is the wheels get to turning again.. for the little guy usually.. Sometimes the Vendor comes in a straitens it all out..
and if we as a group think that the little guy is a little shet then we take torches to him and make him publicly appologize..

cause we ALL are little guys.. til we get together.. then we arent so little no more.

you dig?

[novanutcase]

well if that is a problem then the mods shouldnt shut down threads that state feedback from pt.com users about vendors.

if there is no "vendor feedback or rating" for them then a thread on dealings with them should be open.. as long as the parameters are set.

the who, what, when, and how we gonna fix it parameters..

I dont think its PT.coms responsibility to provide vendor feedback.. but if you guys know someone may be getting screwed at least you should have
the guys back by giving him a place to talk about it..

again..

all I ever seen when threads like this happen is the wheels get to turning again.. for the little guy usually.. Sometimes the Vendor comes in a straitens it all out..
and if we as a group think that the little guy is a little shet then we take torches to him and make him publicly appologize..

cause we ALL are little guys.. til we get together.. then we arent so little no more.

you dig?

EXACTLY.....strength in numbers.

If vendors realize that they are going to get called out on the carpet they may think twice about how they handle they're customer service. That doesn't mean that if some little whiny azz mawfawker is bitching and moaning for no real reason we will take it as gospel either. If he's going to be posting a negative about a vendor he better back it up with dates and paperwork. I think that most on here can read between the lines and distill what is really going on.

John

[andrewb70]

......I think that most on here can read between the lines and distill what is really going on.

John

Actually, empirical evidence shows the exact opposite to be true.

http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=16744

In a nutshell, people perceive information that is read on Internet forums, by anonymous posters, to be as credible as reports in the newspaper.

Andrew

[newmexicosaint]

Vendors know when they are operating unethically. Even the ones who roam, post and frequent this site. The same can be said about the consumer who's intent is to defame a vendor unjustly. Sadly, I have learned that some vendors can't be trusted to follow through as promised and choose not to communicate to their customers. The best lessons are the hard ones. Don't use them if they fail.

Consumers who unjustly seek to hurt ANYONE'S reputation without just cause is equally pathetic.

We have a code of values in my business that we, as a group, read out loud every week before our meetings. Here they are...

We live our Code of Values by…

Respect

…treating others as we would like to be treated.
…listening with the intent to understand what is being said and acknowledging that what is said is important to the
speaker.
…responding in a timely fashion.
…speaking calmly and respectfully, without profanity or sarcasm.
…acknowledging everyone as right from their own perspective.


Integrity

…making only agreements we are willing, able and intend to keep.
…communicating any potentially broken agreements at the first appropriate opportunity to all parties concerned.
…looking to the system for correction and proposing all possible solutions if something is not working.
…operating in a responsible manner: "above the line…"
…communicating honestly and with purpose.
…asking clarifying questions if we disagree or do not understand.
…never saying anything about anyone that we would not say to him or her.

If more people would operate by these codes we would have less problems like the ones discussed.

[novanutcase]

Actually, empirical evidence shows the exact opposite to be true.

http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=16744

In a nutshell, people perceive information that is read on Internet forums, by anonymous posters, to be as credible as reports in the newspaper.

Andrew

Then I guess I'm in the minority......

John

[andrewb70]

Vendors know when they are operating unethically. Even the ones who roam, post and frequent this site. The same can be said about the consumer who's intent is to defame a vendor unjustly. Sadly, I have learned that some vendors can't be trusted to follow through as promised and choose not to communicate to their customers. The best lessons are the hard ones. Don't use them if they fail.

Consumers who unjustly seek to hurt ANYONE'S reputation without just cause is equally pathetic.

We have a code of values in my business that we, as a group, read out loud every week before our meetings. Here they are...

We live our Code of Values by…

Respect

…treating others as we would like to be treated.
…listening with the intent to understand what is being said and acknowledging that what is said is important to the
speaker.
…responding in a timely fashion.
…speaking calmly and respectfully, without profanity or sarcasm.
…acknowledging everyone as right from their own perspective.


Integrity

…making only agreements we are willing, able and intend to keep.
…communicating any potentially broken agreements at the first appropriate opportunity to all parties concerned.
…looking to the system for correction and proposing all possible solutions if something is not working.
…operating in a responsible manner: "above the line…"
…communicating honestly and with purpose.
…asking clarifying questions if we disagree or do not understand.
…never saying anything about anyone that we would not say to him or her.

If more people would operate by these codes we would have less problems like the ones discussed.

Gene,

You are absolutely correct. If everyone operated by the principles that you outline above, there would be few problems with vendor / customer relations. We are not disputing that vendors have to treat customers properly, nor are we stating that customers should not have some recourse if a vendor is being unresponsive.

The main question at hand is: What is pro-touring.com's role in this matter?

There are various mechanisms that are already in place to help consumers with vendor issues. Someone mentioned the FTC guidelines for back orders. There are also other organizations such as the BBB. I am also a member of Angie's List. They have a new section that is devoted strictly to "Classic Car" vendors and services.

Pro-touring.com is a web forum. It is a publishing medium where the content is generated by all participating members. Advertising revenue is used to maintain the infrastructure and pay for the bandwidth that this forum requires. Moderators are not compensated for their time.

This matter is being discussed and some action will be taken in due fashion.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Then I guess I'm in the minority......

John

In academic terms you would be called an extreme outlier.

Andrew

[novanutcase]

The main question at hand is: What is pro-touring.com's role in this matter?

There are various mechanisms that are already in place to help consumers with vendor issues. Someone mentioned the FTC guidelines for back orders. There are also other organizations such as the BBB. I am also a member of Angie's List. They have a new section that is devoted strictly to "Classic Car" vendors and services.

Pro-touring.com is a web forum. It is a publishing medium where the content is generated by all participating members. Advertising revenue is used to maintain the infrastructure and pay for the bandwidth that this forum requires. Moderators are not compensated for their time.

This matter is being discussed and some action will be taken in due fashion.

Andrew

Technically you are correct. PT has no responsibility in matters like this. I think what many of us are trying to get across is that PT is not a sterile environment where the only thing that is disseminated is technical information. It's morphed into so much more than that. It's a community of like minded gear heads. PT is really just a digital clubhouse where we can all congregate and obsess about our passion. That being said, it's inevitable that many will forge friendships and with that comes a certain responsibility to "have your friends back" by posting warnings about certain "bumps in the road".

If PT.com is going to let advertisers in by taking their money to advertise on the site I would think that there is a certain responsibility in their protecting their membership from being preyed upon by those that they've, in a sense, approved by letting them in. I understand that you can't filter out every douche bag vendor but in a case like this some sort of protocol needs to be implemented so that there is at least some modicum of recourse.

John

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

^ co-signed.

[aronhk_md]

This is one of the things I really like about this site: Everyone expresses their opinion without nastiness. Its one reason I dont spend much time on yellowbullet...they have a bunch of keyboard badasses. I have met real men with integrity and courage, and those men needed none of that bravado. So I thank Larry and the moderators...whatever your recipe for keeping it pleasant...its working.

On the subject, or at least in tandem with the subject at hand - transparency in any sort of complaint is important. I'm not the first to bring this up, but I believe PT should consider moving to require user names that are actual names. Other forums have done this, and I think it discourages B.S. I have even seen forums go so far as to require credit card verification. This way a name and address is assigned to a user in order to allow them to post. Not all of their info is obviously available to other members, but it is available to moderators. This could be a penny, or a dollar to register. True, this might keep the roaming interested internet observer from seeing a subject of interest and signing up to make a post, but chances are that one time hitter isnt coming back anyway. Anyone serious about this site will come back a few times just because there is lots to keep their attention, and eventually they will say what the heck and pull out their wallet.

Another thought in line with this subject is a formal complaint form. This could be designed by moderators.....maybe with member input as to what we'd like to see on it. It could be a rule to post your complaint this way so it doesnt meander, get nasty or go back over and over the same points.

COMPLAINT:
PARTIES INVOLVED:
DATES/TIMELINE OF CONTACT OR EVENTS:
EVIDENCE (RECEIPTS, PICS, EMAILS):
CURRENT STATUS:

As has been mentioned...and critter has this one exactly right...the only ones allowed to post should be the parties involved. If a vendor spends their money to advertise here, they should be required as part of that contract to participate once informed of an issue. It really isnt good enough if they just dont respond. Sure, its an answer of sorts...but not sufficient. Finally, and critter has this one too...a final post should be made by all parties involved if possible, or at the least a moderator if they know anything about the situation.

The idea of a feedback system or vendor rating system is nice...people leaving positive feedback should need no approval to do so, but people should be required to contact a moderator to leave negative feedback. Truth is this will be the hardest part of this type of system because for example if I were to call a vendor and the vendor indicated they were to call me back....time passes....I leave messages, but never get a call....shouldnt I have a right to leave some sort of negative feedback? This becomes a qualitative call on the part of a moderator, as opposed to the quantitative and easier call to be made when for example a customer has a receipt but never received what they paid for.

Anyway...its good to have this conversation and I look forward to seeing the ideas continue here.

P.S. - I have seen instances where a vendor with a very good reputation has dropped the ball. Whether its a change in their staffing, a change in life itself for a principal in the company, outgrowing their supply chain or customer service capability...the reasons can be endless. It is important for moderators especially to keep a neutral stance and not play favorites regardless of past performance on the part of a vendor.

[dhutton]

Technically you are correct. PT has no responsibility in matters like this. I think what many of us are trying to get across is that PT is not a sterile environment where the only thing that is disseminated is technical information. It's morphed into so much more than that. It's a community of like minded gear heads. PT is really just a digital clubhouse where we can all congregate and obsess about our passion. That being said, it's inevitable that many will forge friendships and with that comes a certain responsibility to "have your friends back" by posting warnings about certain "bumps in the road".

If PT.com is going to let advertisers in by taking their money to advertise on the site I would think that there is a certain responsibility in their protecting their membership from being preyed upon by those that they've, in a sense, approved by letting them in. I understand that you can't filter out every douche bag vendor but in a case like this some sort of protocol needs to be implemented so that there is at least some modicum of recourse.

John

Very well said. It chaps me when I see vendors running roughshod over members here and more so when I see them allowed to continue without so much as a simple acknowledgement and apology.

[Tony_SS]

No vendors have posted in this thread. lol

[Roadrage David]

Ofcours they do not!! post. But il bet they read every post being made!!!. vendors that have a lack of sirvis are seeing /feeling that there is a colectif tought about doing bisenis with Vendors that cant diliver the way they should . fackt that this topic hase somanny posts and klicks in sutchs a short notice sais enoughf about the problem.......................

[andrewb70]

.....It chaps me when I see vendors running roughshod over members here and more so when I see them allowed to continue without so much as a simple acknowledgement and apology.

Ok. This is exactly the kind of hyperbolic language that we are afraid of. That single statement makes it sound like this is some sort of endemic condition on this forum, when in fact that is far from the truth!

Also keep in mind that this thread features participants that have the strongest opinions on the matter. This is what we call "self select bias" in academic research. The voices that are being heard belong to a small minority, but the illusion is that this is the opinion of the majority. Once again, that is simply not the case. There are a total of 110 responses in this thread. Even if we don't account for duplicate posts that amounts to less than 0.5% of the total board membership. Let's keep things in perspective.

Andrew

[wmhjr]

Andrew, to be clear it would be more accurate to say that we don't know if the opinions stated in this thread represent the majority on this site or not. One could also make the argument that some others would be even more strongly opinionated, but are of the impression that the site prohibits them from stating there information. Interestingly enough, I think that the overwhelming majority of posts here are pretty "centrist" rather than being emotionally biased one way or another. For me, I have no issues and have never really had an issue with a sponsor here. It's more of a "what's the right thing to do" discussion from my perspective.

[Tony_SS]

I would also like to give Jon at Drivers Inc + feedback. $25 bucks for a set of lug nuts delivered! And they are powedercoated gloss black - you can't beat that deal. Great service too.

I think a lot of vendors here deserve props for supporting our hobby. A moderated feedback forum could benefit them greatly. my .02 anyway.