Vendor not delivering parts Part II

[Roadrage David]

One problem with customer complaints on a public forum is : we never get both sides of the story ..
It's hard to know the details of what is really going on .
And once the hearsay is posted , it becomes like law .

Jeff Tate

Georgia, U.S.A.
Day's Chevrolet
1-800-282-0067
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Sorry Jeff need to say something about that. Delet it if you whant, but thats a biast simple awnser.

So pro-touring. com take money / sponsering from vendors who place there ads here.
But custumors that get screwd over, cant say ore share there exsperience nore wil be given some form of a protecting status from Pro-touring.com. Do i understand that right!!??.

Couple of years ago there was this website called Pontiac warriors..
If you were looking for a engine builder you could use your pc mouse to click on a individual state shown on the map of the USA that you lived in .
Al the Known USA pontiac engine builders in that state came forward. People could give feedback about there dealings being it good ore bad , on EVERY single engine builder as long as they dind not used agressif and faul words.

This way you forced engine builders ore part vendors ecetera To stand out in there custumore sirvis . when people praize ore give a read flag to the companys they deal with you wil force them to compeat with echother who gets your orders.
In the end EVERYBODY but most of al the scene benifits!!. cheaper parts more bisenis more turn around bigger seen ecetera ecetera

At that time I chosen the engine builder who had positif feedback only!!. Sins that time i have imported 10 ore so engines of supurb quality. low prices. super custumor sirvis .
I became a real close frind to this man !!.
.needless to say that the one with the most negatif feedback (rock and roll engineering Bruce Fulper) proved to be the biggest cheater and conn man ever in pontiac engine builder history . who owes lots of money to a lot of people.
before he was spewed out . Magazines like Pontiac high performance and car craft used him as a engine builder in there magazine giving him PR. They where in my eyes also responsible of lots of people loosing there money. ore didnd got where they paid for. this ofcours is a exstreem case.
anyway i belive that
your statemend is based on Vendor protection!!
Even E-Bay hase a custumore feedback, So hiding behind a statemend "" we need two sides of the story"" is just another way of saying whe dont whant to loose our sponsers. because practily nobody who gets a good deal wil complaint RIGHT!!. YET its the member on this forum that make pro-touring.com work.
so who is screwing who then, ore who hase more intrest and benifit here...

[martin 1768]

In respect of all the vendors on this site, public the name of the vendor who diddent delivere the parts. and let us hear his part of the story.
Martin

[JEFFTATE]

Yes , we do need a way to protect members from incompetent vendors ..
A vendor rating system would help .

But , we also need a way to protect vendors from the one customer who slanders them without cause ..

[absintheisfun]

As a member that has has a problem with a vendor on this site, I agree that there needs to be a place where the forum allows the sides of the story to be told. I ultimately sent a PM to Larry, rather than broadcast my discouragement because I know the way this site stays up (vendor revenue). It is a blessing to have the free venue to meet, discuss and chat with certifiable car nuts, but a curse if we are burned by those funding it.

At the time of my problems I searched and searched but never saw anything bad about this company. However, recently I have seen many rumblings of this company's dissatisfied customers come forward only to have the thread get closed.

[parsonsj]

we also need a way to protect vendors from the one customer who slanders them without cause

And to amplify that point: the typical complaint is anonymous, and the vendor isn't. The damage is heavily stacked in the complaining person's favor.

We're discussing this internally. There isn't an easy answer, and it isn't PT.com's responsibility to provide a mechanism for vendor complaints. It's flattering to hear that some of you think highly of our board and its influence, but we are going to proceed cautiously here.

As I mentioned in another thread, we have on occasion allowed a heavily moderated thread to exist with limited participation: just the complaining customer, the vendor, and moderators. If someone feels like that would be useful, they need to contact the moderators privately, with documentation of what the problem is. We'll try and mediate that and allow a complaint thread in our limited time. Just know that anonymous complaints won't even be considered. You'll need to give us a real name, and use it in the thread.

If that's useful to a member, contact one of the mods.

jp

[Denvervet]

Yes , we do need a way to protect members from incompetent vendors ..
A vendor rating system would help .

But , we also need a way to protect vendors from the one customer who slanders them without cause ..

I still don't buy this response. A forum is exactly the place where a vendor can defend himself and get both sides of the story. If a vendor doesn't want to defend himself well.......no response is a response.

[73z-6sp]

I am not sure where my opinion lies regarding this topic. I feel very strongly that others should be warned about potential problems regarding vendors or other users. I also agree completely that one person should not be allowed to destroy someones' reputation. If both sides cannot work it out privately either because someone isn't responding or otherwise then maybe public discourse is a good option.

To me...not delivering something paid for is outrageous, and should be, to moderators and users alike. Thats simple stealing. I hope that someone will let me know if I am about to make the mistake of using that person!

I have a complaint with someone on this site that I recently made a transaction with. I made some of the mistakes in the transaction but the other person must bear some of the blame also. They simply were not honest with me and sold me something other than I agreed to buy and didn't deliver all that was agreed upon. It was a large dollar transaction. I am hesitant to mention them in a thread like this because so many have had good luck with them. If I complained I would be the bad guy. But if I see someone mentioning doing business with this person I will absolutely pm them and tell them my story. They can take it how they want. I just don't want others to make the same mistake I did.

[parsonsj]

A forum is exactly the place where a vendor can defend himself and get both sides of the story.

The problem here is that there is no independent verification of the actual events. Both customer and vendor are free to say whatever they want, and so the full truth will be elusive. The thread will probably not get both sides of the story, but only some of both sides, and likely only the parts of the respective sides that make themselves look justified. And most of that rationalization won't even be conscious by either party in the discussion.

[THE TECH]

I think it all comes down to money based on the responses thus far by the moderators. Maybe the shoe would be on the other foot if the site was funded more by the members. In addition, without the members, the vendors would not sponsor the site. I think more needs to be done for the people who keep the vendors in business.

[JEFFTATE]

I still don't buy this response. A forum is exactly the place where a vendor can defend himself and get both sides of the story. If a vendor doesn't want to defend himself well.......no response is a response.

You have a valid point , but a lot of vendors/suppliers may not know about a complaint thread .
Think of the dozens ( if not hundreds ) of forums on the internet .
No vendor can monitor all of them .

As John said , "the typical complaint is anonymous, and the vendor isn't. The damage is heavily stacked in the complaining person's favor."
We just don't want the good vendors on the site to get slandered in any way .
There are approximately 90 paying , advertising vendors on the site .
And very,very ( if any ) complaints about there service .

We don't want threads that turn into a chaotic argument , instead of some constructive carbuilding information .

None of the moderators or administrators of this site are going to take the side of a vendor who is not fullfilling their obligation to a customer .
We are not going to take up for a vendor just because they are a paying advertiser on the site .
We just want the complaint to be based on factual/documention and not heresay ( or public slander ).

There have been several occasions where the moderators have gone to bat for a customer , and told certain vendors to shape-up or leave the site .
But a lot of this has happend through PM's and discreet communication , so the no one ever knows it happens ..

[wmhjr]

I see both sides of this situation. But, IMHO, a site like this is the perfect place for "reasonable" conflicts to be discussed. If this site is to somewhat actively promote vendor support, then I think it's appropriate when site members have a difficult situation with a vendor. OTOH, we all know that it's far too easy for a buyer to flame a vendor without cause, potentially impacting the livelihood of that vendor in the future.

My suggestion would be that these kinds of conflicts should absolutely be permitted, but only as a last resort. New members should be prohibited from making such complaints, insuring that nobody joins here just for the express purpose of bashing a vendor. Further, I think that such complaints should be mod controlled rather than anyone being able to openly post a complaint without review. I know this places more effort on the mods, but to be fair - if you're going to foster a relationship with sponsors, I think you have an ethical responsibility to have some transparency.

Let's also be real about this. We have some great vendors here, and this is a great site. There is far less "flaming" activity here and more of a community of which vendors are equal partners. I seriously doubt that the frequency of these kind of complaints will be at all high. Maybe I simply have too much respect for the sponsors here, but I really don't think so. I should also mention that this subject is being actively discussed over on Lat-G.

Just my 2 cents. I applaud Larry and the crew for the site, and for trying to keep their heads here, but really do believe that a strict "no way" policy is counter-productive to the entire purpose of this site.

[1969CamaroRS]

Yes , we do need a way to protect members from incompetent vendors ..
A vendor rating system would help .

But , we also need a way to protect vendors from the one customer who slanders them without cause ..

Perhaps have a special forum where everyone can read but in order to post or create threads you need a certain post count or account has to have a certain age? Probably would require a lot of moderator time in any event.

[THE TECH]

Perhaps have a special forum where everyone can read but in order to post or create threads you need a certain post count or account has to have a certain age? Probably would require a lot of moderator time in any event.

Does having an account for a longer length of time mean that someone is more credible? Does that mean a new vendor would have the same lack of credibility?

[parsonsj]

Does having an account for a longer length of time mean that someone is more credible? Does that mean a new vendor would have the same lack of credibility?

Of course. That's true in all walks of life. Reputations are built over time.

jp

[Tony_SS]

Perhaps the open discussion of disagreements might serve to educate future and existing customers on what to expect when ordering particiular items and dealing with vendors?

It also might serve the vendor to hear the concerns of customers to gauge if any improvements in their process might need to be made.

[jocko124]

What do you guys think about an anonymous vendor rating system? The only caveat would be an invoice emailed to Larry or one of the moderators showing a recent purchase--that way people are not rating vendors without an actual recent purchase.

[wmhjr]

Of course. That's true in all walks of life. Reputations are built over time.

jp

Wouldn't it be more fair to say in this case that having an account for at least a specified amount of time provides assurances that the individual has not joined simply to bash a vendor. Personally, if somebody has been around for 6 months or 6 years, I'm confident that they aren't here just to complain. Unless it's my spouse (In the interests of self preservation, I want to make it clear that the last comment was a joke and in no way undermines the fact that my spouse is always right)

[CRCRFT78]

Why not give sponsors a section to allow praise/criticism from customers when they decide to become a sponsor. The sponsors know ahead of time what it is used for and can address their customer related issues. Threads giving praise can be open for all to comment and threads related to negative issues with said sponsor can only be posted in by the OP and the sponsor. It would show no favortism while allowing the two sides to "air it out" if they choose to while hopefully correcting the problem.

[THE TECH]

Of course. That's true in all walks of life. Reputations are built over time.

jp

Interesting. So if I have an issue and since I am new on the forum, that immediately discredits anything I might say against a vendor? So I shouldn't support vendors in fear that IF I had an issue and IF said vendor wasn't handling it properly, I would be summarily dismissed based solely on the fact of when I joined the forum?? Doesn't seem to promote buyer confidence.

[Denvervet]

I think it just means if someone is new to the site they wouldn't be using this site to air their complaints. They would have to do what is presently done.....speak to the vendor and handle it directly. Not unreasonable in my opinion. Just like most things like this there will be no perfect remedies just better ones.

Interesting. So if I have an issue and since I am new on the forum, that immediately discredits anything I might say against a vendor? So I shouldn't support vendors in fear that IF I had an issue and IF said vendor wasn't handling it properly, I would be summarily dismissed based solely on the fact of when I joined the forum?? Doesn't seem to promote buyer confidence.