Gotta Do Homework Before Posting?

[David Pozzi]

I think it's great start (posting suggestions) but keep it short and sweet. I'd put the "meat" at the top then further explanation at the bottom. Most guys with short attention span will probaby skip the bottom part.

[skeevay]

I think Cory has some good points..... I also agree with most of the above statements, but I think this line...

Always remember that more knowledgeable members are here to help you, not serve you. Don't test their patience.

could be edited to sound a little more friendly too. Especially the last part...."Don't test their patience" I thought I only had to walk on thin ice around my wife!

[baz67]

Cory you have a good point. One thing I would like to point out though. How many times has there been a simple and often previously answered question started by someone new. Obvously they did not search and it does not get answered Then this person comes back and sees it is not answered and is now pissed this simple question is not answered. They know it is simple because they vaguely mention its simplicity in the post and then posts "anyone" or "hello". I am not pointing at anyone, but it has happened. Now they are pissed and then they get the "have you searched" responses. All of that could have been avoided with a simple five minute search.

[zbugger]

Tom, cut and paste? How lazy of you......

Dennis, when you get to the majors and start rooting for the Giants, you can join our little club.

The search function is something that does seem new to folks for some reason. It is a very helpful tool, but you also have to know how to use it for some strange reason. For what it's worth, the repeating yourself is never gonna end. Just try getting a job in sales. That's the same thing over and over and over again. You just gotta figure out a new way to say it. Brian, I know exactly what you're talking about. When I first started posting, I waited a couple days for an answer. It's all about patience. Then again, I waited for the bathroom once. I'm not finishing that story.

[CoryM]

Ya Baz, that does happen and the guidelines with a recommendation to search before posting *should* take care of that. If they are too lazy to read the guidelines, or search, then I dont feel sorry for them to get a "do a search" response. No need to be uncivil about it though, they will figure it out soon enough.
I like the guidelines, and the book list and most everything about this board. Just seems strange to me to complain about volunteer work

[baz67]

Is it not just as strange to get mad because one did not get free advice? Just some food for thought.

[BrianP]

Another reason is that without a fairly decent grasp of suspension design theory no one really has any business turning a single bolt on the chassis. .

Nor should one be selling a product without such knowledge.

I don’t think the posting guidelines have addressed the real issue: How to comment on a poorly designed product without negativity and bashing. But I think people need to be made aware of products that are poorly designed and potentially very dangerous. To me that is what the purpose of boards like this one are good for.

[CoryM]

Sure is Baz. If someone gets pissy because they didnt get free help they deserve a good solid bonk on the head.

[vanzuuk1]

When I first posted I mistakenly thought the forum was more like an online chat as far as response time. I was new to this and figured there were people with their fingers poised ready to respond! Of course I know now most people just drop in now and then to catch up, so I am patient.
As penance for my earlier clueless questions I try and spot the new guys and steer them to where they need to go. Of course you guys want new members, and new members will recycle the same questions and mistakes just like at the track.

[baz67]

vanzuuk1, I hope you did not feel like my comments were directed at you. They were made in general referance.

[Steve Chryssos]

Nor should one be selling a product without such knowledge.

I don’t think the posting guidelines have addressed the real issue: How to comment on a poorly designed product without negativity and bashing. But I think people need to be made aware of products that are poorly designed and potentially very dangerous. To me that is what the purpose of boards like this one are good for.

I'd say that we as a group are taking care of that so far as evidenced in the two recent threads below. Tending to negativity and bashing is not so much a guideline for all but rather a job for moderators in particular. If things get out of control, shut the sucker down.

1) Say a member asks about a particular kit.
2) More knowledgable members respond by explaining strengths and weaknesses (The guidelines ask that they be patient and considerate).
3) A vendor comes in to defend his product (The guidelines ask that the vendor come with data)
4) Instead of data, the vendor starts talking about donkeys
5) Rather than gang-raping or tag-teaming the vendor across two pages, we show him the door. End it right there. There's nothing to defend. Trust me, the vendor did more harm to himself by eluding the "data" guideline, than we ever could. The vendor was cautioned in the guidelines and he got one chance to promote his product and blew the opportunity. End it. Notify a moderator to lock or delete the sucker. That's the classy thing to do.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7362

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7294

[parsonsj]

As penance for my earlier clueless questions I try and spot the new guys and steer them to where they need to go.

Right. Exactly. That makes for a healthy discussion. We want folks to research and look stuff up, but we also want members to feel like, well, members. Not supplicants or serfs, afraid to ask the wealthy landowners for permission to live.

Some of the very experienced members shouldn't get so annoyed when an oft-asked question is asked again. Let somebody else answer that one, perhaps a newer member who hasn't already heard it a dozen times, and wants to join the discussion. Keep it friendly and civil, and this club will work for all of us.

jp

[Mean 69]

Funny thing about suspension geometry. After some basic reading you will be able to walk up to any pro-touring car and--with a quick glance--pretty much know if it's done right or not. It's a cool feeling.

I couldn't agree more, and to many of us, it is more than just a hobby, it is an absolute, and complete obsession. I think that is part of the reason that folks get so animated when it gets to the nitty gritty, such as myself.

I have gotten used to the repeat questions, to be honest. I don't even open the thread, it is a lot of extra noise, but that part doesn't really bother me too much. I agree, the dudes who have repeat questions will usually get them answered by people willing to spend their time answering. No sweat. My peeve is when folks bring empty claims, or worse, flat out wrong claims. I guess I'll just keep my mouth (keyboard) shut if it happens again.

Mark

[parsonsj]

when folks bring empty claims, or worse, flat out wrong claims. I guess I'll just keep my mouth (keyboard) shut if it happens [again]

That's different then newbie repeated questions: empty or wrong claims need to be challenged immediately. Sending donkey-boy packing was the right thing to do.

Making a guy who asks if 265 tires will fit his Camaro feel small is what I was talking about.

jp

[baz67]

...265 tires will fit his Camaro...
jp

You mean you can?!Yes!!!

[Steve Chryssos]

I couldn't agree more, and to many of us, it is more than just a hobby, it is an absolute, and complete obsession. I think that is part of the reason that folks get so animated when it gets to the nitty gritty, such as myself.

I have gotten used to the repeat questions, to be honest. I don't even open the thread, it is a lot of extra noise, but that part doesn't really bother me too much. I agree, the dudes who have repeat questions will usually get them answered by people willing to spend their time answering. No sweat. My peeve is when folks bring empty claims, or worse, flat out wrong claims. I guess I'll just keep my mouth (keyboard) shut if it happens again.
Mark

I sure hope that you speak up. Ask for a clarification and if it does not come, we should show him the door. Manufacturers need to be held to different standards than novice rodders.

Standard for Novice Rodders and Members In General
They need all the help we can provide. Weened on advertorials and the Learning Channel, their grey matter has been blackened by terms like bumpstick, slug and hoops. They are led to believe that bolt-on parts are commonplace. That they can build a car in 10 days or perform most mods in a 1/2 hour cause some guy did the install on Spike TV.
:rtfm: "Just open a can of Instant Mule, pour it in your gas tank, and you'll have your very own supercar." :rtfm: All that should be expected of novice members is that they practice a little forum etiquette. The rest is up to us.

Standard for Manufacturers and Vendors
Now a manufacturer or vendor on the other hand! It's expected that he knows what he's talking about. It's expected that he tested his product over and over again. And it's expected that he did more than just Rip-off and Duplicate (The other R&D). So I would hope that you will challenge claims. Since this is a club of functional cars, if any manufacturer can't corroborate functionality, we should show them the door. But do it quickly.

Better to flush the toilet, than to roll around in the poop.

[Derek69SS]

As a newbie with very limited knowledge and experience, I'd like to shed some light on the repeat questions... I'm guilty of it too.

For example, Say I want to figure out what spring-rate/height I want in my car. I'm on a pretty tight budget, and I don't want to buy 5 sets of springs before I'm happy with it, and I definitely don't want to do the assembly/dissassembly 5 times either.

*note: these are all made-up just for the sake of an example* I search spring rates, and find 20 topics, 5 are GM A-bodys.

One about an Alum. headed BBC 65 wagon with a T-56 and the B-body spindles, 1-1/4" sway-bar and 18" wheels that will be running autocross 20 weekends/year. This topic, may be informative, but it applies to a car with a different weight, different wheels, different suspension, etc. I might be able to guess a little closer judging by this car, but definitely not the exact info I'm looking for.

How much will this help me with my SB/auto, stock spindle, '69 coupe on 15s which will see 98% street use?

While this is certainly different than "Will brakes from a '72 Nova fit my '69 Camaro", it is why the repeat questions come up. Most newbies with limited knowledge want to be told what is perfect for their application, not sort through several topics and figure out what might work based on what contradicting advice was given in 20 previous topics.

It's also very hard to figure out what's BS when your new. It all seems more "Gospel" when someone is personally taking their time to answer your specific question.

[Steve1968LS2]

50 Cent says that Fat Joe isn't really a gangsta.

It's "fify cent" you nerdy whiteboy ;)

Guidelines are good.. reccomendations are good.. Oh, and the search button is your buddy

I agree that it needs to be worded right to avoid scaring newbies off the site.. other than that it is good advice..

[vanzuuk1]

Baz 67 No problem, I didnt think you directed them at me . I did take a swipe about my spelling once. I let it slide but I should have clarified that my spelling is o.k. but my typing sucks. I did catch shrapnel from the "chew-em-up-and-spit-em-out" comment.

[Steve1968LS2]

That's different then newbie repeated questions: empty or wrong claims need to be challenged immediately. Sending donkey-boy packing was the right thing to do.

Making a guy who asks if 265 tires will fit his Camaro feel small is what I was talking about.

jp

You know how many times I get asked what lid is best on ls1tech.com???

It is just part of the "interweb experience"...