1970 GTO Version 2.0

[SPECWARSQUID]

At what point does an engine stop being a given brand?

Andrew

That's a good point. Especially when you look at the latter 2nd gen Trans Ams with Olds 403s.

My personal point of view is that the LSX motors are a generic GM motor. Heck at least it's GM, after seeing some guys throwing LSx motor in their Mustangs (nothing wrong with that, built Ford Tough with Chevy stuff).

Shoot that 502 would be considered more Chevy than anything else. But I recall, I don't know if you still can, you used to be able to get the 502 cast with Pontiac emblems in the heads and block. So what is it at that point? Chevy or Pontiac? Then don't even get started on the Canadian Pontiacs with their Chevy powerplants.

So in the end it doesn't matter. All know is that Andrew's Goat is gonna be Killer.


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[gearbanger]

LSx power would definitely be cool and probably be better in almost every way, but it definitely does matter to alot of people when you pop the hood and there is another LS motor sitting there instead of the big Pontiac motor that they were expecting to see.

Those ole big block chevy heads and valve covers with PONTIAC wrote on them was just another ploy by GM to try to qualify their Chevy motor for use in some kind of stock class. I thing Warren Johnson might have been involved in that. Still a chevy no matter how you slice it. And canadian Pontiacs, please, that is almost like AMC. Those cars are like a GTO and a Chevelle hitting head on at 100 mph and then trying to build a car out of the wreckage.

Okay Andrew, how about this. Make the LS a throttle body type fuel injection with a conventional 4 barrel intake and fuel rails. Tuck the coil packs out of the way somewhere and have a cool set of valve covers made that say PONTIAC on them. At least keep it a clean, old car look under the hood. Not the wire wod covered by plastic covers that most LS jobs end up looking like.

[parsonsj]

I've no brand loyalty, and paying homage to any soulless corporation (like GM or Ford) to appease the need for a certain "look" seems pointless to me.

It's all about the performance. I only care about seeing good engineering practices and individual ingenuity. So let's see what Andrew comes up with.

Here's my first question: Andrew, are you planning on retaining the shaker hood? If so, what do you have in mind?

jp

[andrewb70]

I've no brand loyalty either. I think that when building custom cars with the goal of improving performance, every option should be considered. While it may seem that "its just another Lsx engine under the hood," the truth of the matter is that when you go to local shows, there are very few, if any, LSx conversions. The whole LSx conversion trend is still very much in the early adapter stage if you were to consider it from the perspective of a product life cycle. While certainly not the "bleeding" edge, it is far from common.

The shaker is definitely staying. The induction setup will largely depend on the kind of engine I choose. It is all tied in with the electronics that must be used, 24 tooth or 58 tooth, blah..blah...blah...I will cover all that in great detail when the time comes. The coils are staying on the valve covers. This is about functionality, not looks. To me the LSx engine are not ugly at all. I think they have a very purposeful appearance. Some of you might not be fully understanding the goals of the upgrade and don't know me very well. I am not a car show guy. When I go, I don't open the hood. My attention span at car shows is about a nano second. This is about making the car more drivable, enjoyable, and as dependable as a new car.

Andrew

[Young Gun]

The shaker is definitely staying. The induction setup will largely depend on the kind of engine I choose. It is all tied in with the electronics that must be used, 24 tooth or 58 tooth, blah..blah...blah...I will cover all that in great detail when the time comes. The coils are staying on the valve covers. This is about functionality, not looks. To me the LSx engine are not ugly at all. I think they have a very purposeful appearance. Some of you might not be fully understanding the goals of the upgrade and don't know me very well. I am not a car show guy. When I go, I don't open the hood. My attention span at car shows is about a nano second. This is about making the car more drivable, enjoyable, and as dependable as a new car.

Andrew

glad to hear the car is going to be focused on performance...and I am also glad to hear the shaker hood is staying... its an awsome car and I can't wait to see how she progresses!

[JMarsa]

The shaker is definitely staying.

To bad Year One won't cough up those airboxes for the Bandit cars. I'd think it would be a close fit.

--JMarsa

[cheapthrillz]

Every time I see your signature, it makes me want a goat....

My thoughts: give it an '06 gto treatment.... interior/wheels/drivetrain/irs/etc

I think that would be pretty cool....

[gearbanger]

I agree with you about the performance issue. Personally, I put more value on improving the "GTO" as much as the "GTO" can be improved, but once you change everything about it, there is not much GTO left. Why not just start with a vette? If it is all about performance, they are lighter, have perfect weight distribution, will launch and handle better that you will ever hope to with the Goat, and it is already set up fot the LSx.

I am just kidding Andrew, but you have been through this before.

I am with you on the car show boredom thing. After browsing this forum and seeing the perfection in every detail of a car, you kind of yearn for that at every show you go to but never get it. I think the performance should not be compromised for looks, but true engineering is make maximum performance look sooooooo sexy, like so many on this forum have done.

Can't wait to see what you do man.

[69Nova]

Man I'm glad this car is gonna get some more attention. Your car was on the cover of PHR about the same time I got my Nova. It's because of cars like yours and Steves streetfighter Camaro that clicked with me. I must have read the article about your car 20 times( I still revisit those magazines every so often). Without seeing your car on the cover I'd probly have a big block and a 4 speed and getting 8 mpg.

[andrewb70]

Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement guys. Today I dropped off the big block at its new home and picked up an L92 truck engine. The big ugly truck intake will need to go, as will the water pump and balancer. I also picked up a take out LS7 cam, LS7 valve springs with retainers from Jeff Schwartz. I will post pictures of the new engine tomorrow.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Well done!

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Do you plan on touching the interior at all?

It sounds like you love to drive your car alot, that is why i suggested making it as comfortable as the new gto's (which are amazingly comfortable to drive!).

[andrewb70]

Do you plan on touching the interior at all?

It sounds like you love to drive your car alot, that is why i suggested making it as comfortable as the new gto's (which are amazingly comfortable to drive!).

Well I am not sure what you are suggesting as far as interior work. I have no plans to do anything to the interior. I already have nice leather seats, great sound insulations, awesome stereo. Am I missing something?

Andrew

[72LeMans]

the only thing i have to say is......................bitchin

[ponchopwr70]

I love what your doing with your car. I can't wait to see the finished product and performance figures. Keep us posted.

[andrewb70]

Here is the L92 engine.

Andrew

[Van B]

What are you going to do for accessory drive and intake? From what you told me it sounded like a good buy.

[Young Gun]

Here is the L92 engine.

Andrew

thats what you were talking about when you said truck intake lol...looks like it has lots of potential!

[andrewb70]

What are you going to do for accessory drive and intake? From what you told me it sounded like a good buy.

I'm going to use the Corvette accessory system. Since I want to keep the shaker, a single plane style intake is tempting. Either that or I will get the L76 intake package from GM Performance.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

When I got home this afternoon I found some Edelbrock goodies waiting for me. Here are the engine mount plates:



Judging by the engine cradle these mounting plates will put the bellhousing in very close proximity to where it was before. This is critical for me since I am not changing anything rear of the engine.



The Edelbrock headers came with a complete gasket and bolt kit, but I am going to use the stock MLS exhaust gaskets and bolts. The stock gasket matches the headers well.



The headers are gorgeous!!!





The L92s feature variable valve timing. Since I am going to swap cams I will need a non VVT front cover. The balancer will also be swapped over to a C6 Corvette unit.



Shot down the intake port:



Andrew