How can they live???

[GUS68]

OK OK OK... I see it in magizines, in this forum and everywhere else. All these kick ass cars with MEGGA kick ass motors, Nitrous, superchargers, TWIN turbos!!! Big blocks, Big bore small blocks. And here';s the part I don't understand..... 4, 5 and 6 speed manual trannys!!! HOW tell me, HOW can they live?????!!!!!!! I have a chevelle with a simple 406 small block with camel back heads, Edlebrock carb, bla bla bla.. And I have destroyed muncies, and a Liberty pro shifted super T-10, not to mension spider gears in my 12 bolt posi, U-joints, yolks, even twisted the wheel studs, and clutches. Now I have a FORD Toploader with liberty proshifted gears, And I cant make the clutch live or launch the thing right. I Also have a buddy with a 70 road runner with a 440. He too had a proshifted Hemi 4 speed and a DANA.... DANA!!!! He broke his 4-speed many times and fixed it and finnaly bought a Tremmec. First time out with the tremmec, FIRST TIME!! He blew the spider gears out of the back of the DANA.... D A N A, DANA!!! Oh and its not some old mopar rear it was a fairly new Strange S 60!!
So what gives??? what am I missing??? What magic parts do I need to buy???????? Don't tell me not to abuse it, If thats the case then why have the twin turboed 434 aluminum headed small block with the latest front suspension and 9" rear. Cause if we wernt supposed to abouse the cars we build then we might as well build a 305 with crappy heads and a 2 barrel stock front drums and 10 bolt rear, atleast that muncie would survive!!!

[TitoJones]

Most upgraded T56's can handle 750 hp. The reason they rarely break on our P-T type cars is the 17+ inch rear tires. As you go larger, traction becomes an issue. When you don't hook hard, you don't break hard.

Tyler

[GUS68]

Hey guys!! Im sorry for the rant. I think I am just flusterd cause I Think I may bite the bullit and install an automatic. I love the 4-speeds but I dont think I can continue to try to make this thing work and I don't have the money to throw at it for A mcleod clutch.
I love the stick on the street but when I go racing with my family and freinds. I end up on my back under my car while everyone else is having fun and going rounds. Im just frustrated I guess.

[Cruiser]

Well Turbo 400's break pretty good also. I ended up with a Turbo 350 that lasted a long time. I grenaded the sprag two times the second time it took the case with it! 377 destroke in a 63 Nova tore it up!!

[rocketman]

But also what parts are in your rear ends,tranny's etc.A stock 4-spd is not as bulletproof as you think,they are very weak and can't take much for hp than the factory engine they where designed for.

A t-56 or liberty or lenco will make a killer manual trans,a just but a 4l80e in my pro street car.

Rear ends need high quailty parts, not stock parts.But i have kicked the pinion out of my pro street to, so high dollar parts break too

How's your launch at the strip.That maybe part off the problem.

Just some things to think about.

[ProStreet R/T]

Yeah you hear about a lot of cars running eleventy billion hp through a 6 spd. Heck i've build a couple. What you don't hear about is them CONSTANTLY destroying trannies.

A viper spec T56 in stock form will take 800hp on street tires, but if you drag it, good luck. Even the crazy G-Force T56 with the billet shafts, cryo gears, with all the synchros removed aren't happy at much over 1200rwhp. They do it, but you have to be VERY gentile. You go powershifting it, or get some wheel hop and it's all over. Yes there are guys who will powershift a 1500rwhp car, but it will only make 5-6 passes if you're lucky, and thats just through the first 4 gears. Anything much over 1200rwhp in 5th and it's a ticking time bomb. The torque alone will rip the gears apart.

It's not about not driving it hard, it's being gentle on the tranny.

As for the rear end, our problems have all but disappeared since we started using all the mark williams stuff. Quaife diff with the worm gear is pretty much as strong as a spool and not as brutal as a locker.

If you want a T56 that will take it, let me know and I'll get you their info. It's not bulletproof, but they have lived up to quite a few 6k rpm clutch drops from 1500rwhp cars, and run 8.70's @ 170+mph..

It's fine if it hooks, but you wheel hop a car like that and something is going to break. The IRS cars usually just blow $2k titanium half shafts, but it's not uncommon to see it tear the whole diff out, or snap tranny shafts.

If you want a run a manual in the 1000rwhp range, just plan on breaking a few. Or just say forget it and put a monster auto in there. After you blow up a couple $5k trannies and take out a $1500 triple disc carbon clutch, that OD auto isn't sounding like such a bad idea.


What are you running for a clutch? The 1300rwhp car we took to silver state was holding up surprisingly well on a regular spec 3. A lot of it has to do with the setup and proper breakin, but it's been ok thus far.

[streetk14]

Hey guys!! Im sorry for the rant. I think I am just flusterd cause I Think I may bite the bullit and install an automatic. I love the 4-speeds but I dont think I can continue to try to make this thing work and I don't have the money to throw at it for A mcleod clutch.
I love the stick on the street but when I go racing with my family and freinds. I end up on my back under my car while everyone else is having fun and going rounds. Im just frustrated I guess.

I don't think the 4-speeds are known for their strength. How much power/ what kind of times are you running?

I had a Tremec TKO that I beat on for a long time without hurting a thing (besides blowing out a ford Trac-loc diff in my 9"). I was putting close to 500 hp through it, 600 hp with nitrous. I gave it some pretty good power shifts at the track on slicks, and it just took it.

I have a T56 that is going in my car along with an LS1. I will be sending it out to have it beefed up before I install it. After the modifications, it should be good to at least 700hp.

What kind of clutches are you running? You might want to try a 12" clutch for some extra holding power. My centerforce dual friction clutch worked well.

-Andy

[andrewb70]

Its not just torque that kills parts. It is a combination of torque, traction and vehicle weight. Tires also make a difference. A drag radial is much harder on parts then a wrinkle wall bias ply tire.

Andrew

[GUS68]

I currently have a 3780 lbs. chevelle with me in it. I have a 406 with cammel back 1.94 ported heads, My clutch is a 12 inch center force deul friction, My tranny is a Liberty pro shifted Ford top loader, with 2.74 first. My rear is a 12 bolt posi with 3.73s (street car you know) and 28 by 10.5 Micky tompson slicks. I leave on a 2 step at 5500 rpm (depends on the day) and have run a BEST of 11.98 at 113mph, otherwise it ususlly runs in the 12.20s at about 111mph. This of corse is when it isnt broke!

[Steve1968LS2]

Lots of power (torque) doesn't kill trannies.. tracktion kills them. Lots of guys do fine with weak rears and trannies until they get some sticky drag tires.

Also, as stated, manual trannies can be built to take LOTS of power. One company makes a T56 rated at 1300hp..

[andrewb70]

I currently have a 3780 lbs. chevelle with me in it. I have a 406 with cammel back 1.94 ported heads, My clutch is a 12 inch center force deul friction, My tranny is a Liberty pro shifted Ford top loader, with 2.74 first. My rear is a 12 bolt posi with 3.73s (street car you know) and 28 by 10.5 Micky tompson slicks. I leave on a 2 step at 5500 rpm (depends on the day) and have run a BEST of 11.98 at 113mph, otherwise it ususlly runs in the 12.20s at about 111mph. This of corse is when it isnt broke!

Gus...Key words here...3780lbs.....12 inch dual friction clutch.....2.74 first gear....28 inch slick...Big key word...2 step 5500 RPM... The other factory is driving style. There is a big difference in the shock to the driveline between side stepping the clutch and slipping it out. YOu can get just as good, or even better 60 foot times by slipping the clutch out of the hole and its much easier on parts.

Andrew

P.S. I ran 11.99 on 205/55/16 Sumitomo street tires in my RX7. Weight is your enemy!

[GUS68]

The only parts slipping is hard on is the clutch. I have tryied slipping the clutch (I have tryied every thing I can think of and have been told to try) Only to end up smoking it. May be not at first but after 2 or 3 passes its roached. I have tryied not using the 2 step many times, some timed dumping at as high as 6500rpm and as low as 4500rpm and every where in between. If the RPMs are too low (like 4500-5000) It boogs BAD, if they are too high it spins, it seemes there is no happy medium. I belive my only answer is an adjustable clutch from McLeod, but I cant see spending, nor can I afford, a 2500 dollar clutch that the guy at McLeod told me would probably eventually end up dying after a few years of street use.

[streetk14]

You have torque, good traction, a fairly high launch rpm, and a relatively heavy car with a manual trans. I'd say that is a recipe for driveline problems, but I'm sure there is a solution.

If you go drag racing a lot, maybe you should look into a more race-oriented clutch. The dual friction is more of a street clutch in my opinion. It is designed to be smooth and quiet, while providing good grip. There are more aggressive single-disc designs that will probably hold up better for the way you drive.

With 111 or 112 mph trap speeds, you aren't putting that much power to the ground (maybe 450hp at the flywheel). Maybe some others will chime in.

-Andy

[GUS68]

Yes, I agree with you, also I think, at the track my car would benifit with deeper gears, and a more race clutch. BUT....... I also DRIVE the car. I try to go drag racing about 3 times a year (Iwould go more if it was closer) BUT I drive the car more than race it. I drive to car shows 60 miles or more away, I try to drive it to work when its nice out, some times we take it out to eat or just plain cruise in it. Like I said, a more race clutch wouldnt last on the street, and 4.56s would get old. I am to the point where I am considering an automatic, even though I have teased my freinds for years about their autos. If I do switch, I will never hear the end of it.

[IMENCHACA619]

Hello, i am new in this Pro touring well i got a quick question i have a Pro Air Compressor 4 sale$$$ . Is a 20 gal: 5 hp and i would like too know how much i can sell it. It works great in good condition, if somebody can answer me this q's how much i can sell it. Well tanxs pepz have a good day.........

[Madspeed]

Hello, i am new in this Pro touring well i got a quick question i have a Pro Air Compressor 4 sale$$$ . Is a 20 gal: 5 hp and i would like too know how much i can sell it. It works great in good condition, if somebody can answer me this q's how much i can sell it. Well tanxs pepz have a good day.........

WTF???
Hello Mclfy

[ProStreet R/T]

The only parts slipping is hard on is the clutch. I have tryied slipping the clutch (I have tryied every thing I can think of and have been told to try) Only to end up smoking it. May be not at first but after 2 or 3 passes its roached. I have tryied not using the 2 step many times, some timed dumping at as high as 6500rpm and as low as 4500rpm and every where in between. If the RPMs are too low (like 4500-5000) It boogs BAD, if they are too high it spins, it seemes there is no happy medium. I belive my only answer is an adjustable clutch from McLeod, but I cant see spending, nor can I afford, a 2500 dollar clutch that the guy at McLeod told me would probably eventually end up dying after a few years of street use.

Only traping 112 and it's tearing up trannies? Something isn't right there at all.

By "slipping" the clutch, exactly how much are you riding it out? You shouldn't be slipping it more than the first turn or two of the tires, just enough to get it rolling.

When you dump the clutch, are you on the line lock, taking the slack out of the driveline first, or at least preloading it a little? If not that slap as it takes up the lash will kill stuff very quickly.

With the clutch, how much effort did you put into checking the runout between the crank and input shaft? Did it need any offset pins? A good mcleod should grip VERY hard and last many many miles.

hehe, put a T56 in it with some 4.30 gears

[myclone]

When you dump the clutch, are you on the line lock, taking the slack out of the driveline first, or at least preloading it a little? If not that slap as it takes up the lash will kill stuff very quickly.

I finally found one other person on the planet that gets the concept of taking slack in the drive line to prolong its life .

BTW, I agree that something is amiss if youre breaking trans' at your present ET/MPH/weight.

[andrewb70]

I finally found one other person on the planet that gets the concept of taking slack in the drive line to prolong its life .

BTW, I agree that something is amiss if youre breaking trans' at your present ET/MPH/weight.

I have been doing that since I got the RX7. Its the only driving technique that keeps the driveline together.

Andrew

[hectore3]

Traction kills! Broke a built 12 bolt in the Navy with a stock pontiac Ram Air 400. The best thing I could say is that "Speed cost's money, how fast you wanna go?"