Awd ?????

[rednecknate]

Okay So i found my First CAR YES MY ORIGINAL CAR and have struck up a deal to get it back end of the summer Its 1200 miles away.. Its a 1964 Chevy II 400 series.. i sold it 12-13 years ago and found it again and long story but an old customer of mine ended up with it and agreed to sell it back to me after hearing all my storys about the car!!!

I always said if i got the car back it would be all wheel drive and 450-500hp.. I will for sure be running 6.0 lq9 engine probrobly with a magna charger " i have done a few builds with them and love the sound and power..I located a Astro van AWD trans and tcase which is the same thing as the cyclone and i got me thinking about this swap more seriously..

I have built some crazy stuff over the years Some magazine covers but trucks mostly..And am no stranger to Custom Suspension Builds..Desert racing and offroad.. But am A stranger to custom car suspension setup's..

My questions is I am realativley new to Pro-touring other than what i have read ...and a few Hotchkis kits on some chevelles, Camaro's and nova's over the years..

Has anyone ever used the front suspension and t case etc from a cyclone in a first gen chevy II I have done some measure comparisions and realize it about 2"-3" wider than a stock front suspension I was looking at a c5 wheel or something else really high offset wheel ... I am going to build a full frame for the car regardless... So looking for opinions... I would probrobly run the lowers and spindles and build uppers and run a rack in order to get some better geometry than the stock will provide.. The rear will be a 3 link or truck arm I have to keep a back seat for the kids.. I really wanna run like a 19x10-11 rear and a 18x9 front or close to it..

please feel free to comment

[Yoda4561]

Only seen a handful of AWD builds, and definately none with those specific parts. AWD conversions are rare just because of the work and re-engineering to make them "right" on a driven car, it's a daunting prospect for most enthusiasts. Heck an IRS swap is more work than I wanna tackle any time soon. Gratz on finding your car again, I'd love to have my 72 Cutlass back. Sounds like a sweet project , best of luck with it

[Tiger]

If I'm not wrong I think that Chevy IIs had mcpherson struts up front. Have you been thinking about using AUDI parts? they are into AWD big time and do for sure have sometning stong enough for 500 hp

[CamaroAJ]

the new camaro is designed for AWD. you can look into there front suspension as everything has clearance for a diff, drive shaft and the hubs are already splined for axles. you can find them wrecked already.

[rednecknate]

Yah Im Pretty excited about finding the Car for sure lots of good times Hell even my wife is excited because we dated when i had the car..It had a Built 408 Small block with bowtie heads solid cam and Would burn out for about a 1000 feet so it was the coolest thing in the world for a 16-18 yr old kid to have LOL.. It was perfect i wourked for a service station and Id swap a Used set of tires from the junk bin every weekend on it and do what kids do with 400 plus hp.. Lets just say Grocery bags full of rubber can really stink an apartment up......AHHHH GOOD TIMES

wow thanks guys i had thought a little about audi stuff ..And yes it is kinda a strut-abortion arm of a setup... Hmmm camaros are splined... I wonder what they would use wow many possibliltys I was thinking of using the cyclone stuff just cause i have seen several 1200 hp trucks running 8's which is way more than i would ever need power wise.. And the stuff is the same in many gm applications so easy and cheap The awd trans and t cases can be had for 250-500 pretty regularly.. and the 4wd blazer and s-10 truck uses the same front diff Frame etc.. so for like 500 buck i could have the base components..

Are the new Camaro's A unit bearing?? where i could fab a sheet metal spindle and just uses the bearing as a bolt in??I have never really looked under a new Camaro .. HMMMM AUDI V8 Turbo drive train...that piss off the local's... LOL..

I had given some thought of the Cadillac sts-v i heard they were all wheel drive in the newer one's but can't find anything concrete anyone know this for sure?????????

[CamaroAJ]

the sts-v is rear wheel drive. the sts4 is AWD.

the camaro used the same bearing front or rear. so you can use the rear axle stub and have your axle shop adapt it over to the front diff stub.

also you can use the transmission and transfer case out of a GMC Yukon, most of them were AWD.

[silver69camaro]

If you want a handling car, I'd lose the idea. It really isn't a plug-and-play type of thing. Today's cars that have AWD are lightyears ahead of the Cyclone with the intelligent torque management. Without that, you just have a 4WD musclecar.

[rednecknate]

If you want a handling car, I'd lose the idea. It really isn't a plug-and-play type of thing. Today's cars that have AWD are lightyears ahead of the Cyclone with the intelligent torque management. Without that, you just have a 4WD musclecar.

I actually had never really given that any thought.. Ive just driven some insane fast subaru's and mitubishis that were all wheel drive and rode in a buddy's 400 plus horse all wheel drive celica.. and LOVED IT>> I was actually looking at some 4wd toyota stuff laying in the corner of the garage thinking hmm Locking hubs on a street car?? Do a smokey burn out Lock in the hubs and go for it...

As far as the t case goes i have researched that pretty extensivley the Cycolne and awd astro's us a torque Biasing viscus which only allows around 30-40% power up front which i like the though of cause torque sterring would be no bueno..

As far as the Tahoe or Fullsize truck transfer case i have rebuilt a few of those and no them well but they transfer the power through a series of clutches to the front diff vs a viscus.. i think it would be to much power.bias on a light vehicle... I don't no It is gonna be an insane amount of work.. im still in the drawing idea's in my head now I just can't wait to get th e car back and tear it apart and get it up on a table and start getting a nice welding tan..

Man you guys are great i post stuff on other forums and nobody ever has any input as far as custom stuff every one is like WELL bolt on a Mustang kit and some springs and put a 350/350 combo..HUHUHUHUh.. Glad i have found some of my people... That are nutty...

Here's a picture of my last build it was an awd, Baer 4 piston15" and 14"Disc brakes 20" wheel's, custom 4l80e swap,Cutom built rear end.. Sheetmetal spindles and a magna charger twin intercooled blower.. Coilovers on all four's custom 3 link rear end...

AND Ohhh Ya almost forgot AND 18" of lift and 40" tires....

[mikedc]

The (theoretical) difference between "4WD" and "AWD" is basically in the differentials. 4WD is liable to have the front & rears locked together. AWD is fully diffed out, and allowing (limited) slippage between all the wheels.


As a practical matter, most of the 4WD setups start with RWD model with a longitudinal-mounted engine & tranny. Then they add a transfer case in the center of the vehicle and the front axle/driveshafts.

Most (but not all) AWD setups are starting with originally front-wheel-drive cars using crossways mounted engines/trannys. And then everything involved in powering the rear two wheels is extra additional parts over the 2WD versions of the same model.




There is an AWD option for the modern Dodge Charger 4dr sedans. The engine/tranny is still longitudinal. The whole driveline is more like a pickup truck with independent A-arms at both ends. But it's AWD with a slipping center diff. It's not the only car like this on earth, but it's the first American one I can think of. (If you call that Daimler/Chrysler hybrid American anymore.)


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[Ash]

I remember seeing that as a feature in Truckin'. Good Job


I've seen the cyclone/typhoon/Safari/Astro Borg Warner 1372/4472 transfer-case idea discussed in length. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the Chain wouldn't take too kindly to high instant boost a supercharger would put out.


I've thought about the 89-94 R32 Skyline GT-R, since it has the standard rear differential instead of the later Electronically controlled one. It could put up to 50% power to the front. plus the HICAS four wheel steering on this model was Hydraulically controlled (feeding off the power steering pump) and used speed censors. instead of electronically controlled with a stand alone computer. rear wheels could go 1 degree in either direction. Pie in the sky, but pretty cool.

[73X]

Don't know if you know about this one or not, but Chevrolet does make a RWD based AWD with an LS for power. It's the Trailblazer SS. Don't know the production numbers but they seem to be common in the northern states. Transfer case capable of handling 400hp and 400ft/lbs. I believe its a Torsen T-3 model that is the viscous coupling style. I drive mine everyday and it doesn't feel like a 4WD at all. A little bit of driveline induced input to the steering during very sharp, slow turns and thats it. Six lug axles and such may present a problem though.

[novaderrik]

it's spelled Syclone. GMC built a lowered regular cab shor box 4X4 Sonoma with a turbocharged 4.3 V6 and Astro/Safari van awd transfer case and called it a Syclone.. then in the next 2 model years they took the same drivetrain and stuffed it under a 2 door jimmy and called it a Typhoon.

[Bjkadron]

I think it would be awesome.. But would be a pain to get performing right... But a lot of good suggestions here...

[rednecknate]

Thanks for the props on the Truck It was alot of fun but to much work in a short amount of time i built the whole truck including the chassis in 8 weeks For Sema and am still paying for it!!



HEY 73X noticed you have an trail SS anyway i could talk you into a tape measure across the front of the tires...out side to outside.. Figure that would be my worst case measurement.. They look to wide going down the road for my car but looks can be deceiving


Sorry about the spelling .. I failed misserably at typing in school and really never wrote anything my entire adult life till the last year LOL..

syclone ... Ill keep trying it.. its a tongue twister..

As far as The trailblazer that was one of my first thoughts but they are way to wide.. from what i have found on the internet..

300c was my next option because i owned on and damn it was a nice car.. but again way to wide
I have a Fj crusier front diff laying in my garage which is cool because its a 8" diameter ring gear and 33 spline and belive it or not im more inclinded to use it because of what ive sen em put through.. I was looking under a blazer today and may can the whole thing... I want it super low but fitting a transfer case and seats with it as low as i want may be impossible....

Anybody remember the SUMMIT coupe from years ago never got to look at it close But if memory serves i was all syclone stuff up front and t case wise..

[mikedc]

If the project was mine I would probably not try to get it all from one single source vehicle.

I would probably start with the trailblazer's transfer case, and then get the IFS and IRS stuff out of whatever worked best for those areas. (Or even a solid rear axle.) It's not that hard to get some driveshafts & halfshafts recut to fit one thing with another.

[rednecknate]

If the project was mine I would probably not try to get it all from one single source vehicle.

I would probably start with the trailblazer's transfer case, and then get the IFS and IRS stuff out of whatever worked best for those areas. (Or even a solid rear axle.) It's not that hard to get some driveshafts & halfshafts recut to fit one thing with another.

Thats kinda the route its looking like... I was just leaning towards the syclone for simplicity since it shares so many of the same components as the s series truck and has alot of upgrades available and gear ratios is a biggy..

I don't think IRS is even an option to get the car as low as i want and still have a back seat and a big tire..

The whole project may be out the window though casue i was just watching a bunch of burn out video's and man i love doing it so much not sure i could give it up...



Well this has generated quite a few interesting responsenses thanks guy And a member Private message me some great idea's .............. WAIT for It!!!!!!!!!!! NIssan They have a Torque selectable transfer case you just pull a lever and can bias how much power is transfered... Don't worry it'll be chevy powered no matter what..... But man this makes a ton of sense ill be up all night now looking at Skyline parts first major hurdle would be Drive line is on the wrong side.. so Wonder whats involved to put a t56 to a nissan t case LOL.... A little jb weld and some card board templates perhaps...

[Ash]

The S10 guys converting their 4WD to AWD using the Borg Warner Transfer cases.

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f20/wa...ersion-411404/


LT1 Awd Jimmy

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f30/pr...wd-etc-427337/

[ArtosDracon]

I gotta jump in since you're thinking about syclone front end, it really is not designed to handle well. It's identical to the 4WD S10 front end in every way. IMHO either get a full package AWD system from a more modern car, or start from scratch on your own, possibly a C5/C6 corvette based system was something I was thinking about.

[rednecknate]

I am Kinda leaning away from the s-10 based front suspension now.. i may use some of the components thanks for the Links .... I found a turboed ls1 typhon Looked very doable.. but the more i have been thinking and form you guys input the s-10 based chassis do suck I mean i do want it to handle or its worthless..

After some Sugestions into the Nissan stuff and about 4 hours last night on you tube this will be the thought process for a little while..
Pro's top Nissan based
Narrower than current car it going into
the stock drive train in these cars hold over 1000 hp in stock configuration WOW i was blown away by that..
The transfer case is Torque biasable I can't get that outta my head Pull a lever it goes form 10% to 25% or 50/50 that is just the stuff right there that dreams are made of right there...

Biggest down fall they were never available for sale in the US

Okay now ignore the fact its in japan but watch the performance of this car....and watch the tach on the engine... man if i could make it sound like a v8 id put all this into my car...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8vAxzLApPs

[Bjkadron]

The nissan stuff sound good..The only problems would be that it is Japanese, and you can't disengage it to do burnouts... ;D
Just remember that if you are doing some other suspension then a fwd geometry would be what you would need in the front, NOT a corvette or something. Corvettes were not designed to have power running to the front wheels.