Roll cage

[HarleyR]

The Tigercage looks like someone bolted a bunch of handicapped rails or scaffolding.. in the interior of your car...I would without a doubt shop around to good fab shops and see what I could come up with.

[Mkelcy]

I'm not a cage designer, but it looks to me like the Tiger Cage (or any other cage that puts the main loop so close to the front seats) would be very dangerous on the street, when you drive without either a helmet or a properly cinched harness holding you firmly in your seat.

Look at how close the bar is to the head rest in this video: http://www.hubgarage.com/hubtv/channels/6/videos/114

That would scare me.

[6spdcamaro]

I bet they weren't thinking about street driving when they put those metal headrests in there... ouch

I'm not a cage designer, but it looks to me like the Tiger Cage (or any other cage that puts the main loop so close to the front seats) would be very dangerous on the street, when you drive without either a helmet or a properly cinched harness holding you firmly in your seat.

Look at how close the bar is to the head rest in this video: http://www.hubgarage.com/hubtv/channels/6/videos/114

That would scare me.

[jason@gmachine]

wrong UN.

[The GMR]

The Tiger cage looks good, I just don't know about trusting the connections to higher speed impacts. The other item is the fact that it still is expensive, almost as much as a custom cage setup from a good builder.



I still stand by my original argument:

Leave the bolt on items for suspension, engine, drive-train, etc...
NOT the cage!


Another thing to consider! Due to the past few challenging years there are some very talented builders that are practically starving. You would be surprised who will pick up side work for a great deal. Support your local cage builder!

jason

[wicked68]

the bar was at the roof so I dont think you impact it in a read collision. there is no halo so you dont have side impact considerations.

There is no harness bar either so I dont think a seat back brace is an issue.

I went and sat in mine over the weekend and my head would definately contact my halo bars over the sied windows and it really felt hard when I did a test noggin crash into my sfi padding.

even properly cinched into my seat I would still have enough neck movement to impact the side rail.

I personally dont drive this car much on the road but i will be thinking about this.


Also - nasa and scca have mandated double door bars now - arghh

[redss86]

"The primary function of the TigerCage is chassis stiffening. Any safety protection is strictly coincidental."

I copied this directly off the website. I wouldn't rely on it for safety. Get a quality custom cage. I have seen some cages that are fabricated so well that they are not that noticeable withe the doors closed.

Just my .02,
Joe

[gmjj13]

+1 on the custom cage.
i spent 650 for my 4 point with removeable rear bar. the builder that did mine builds 10.5 outlaw cars, and is very talented at what he does. the bars are out of the way enough that i won't have to worry about making contact with them in an unfortunate event. it was nice that he could bend the bars to fit tight to the roof and sides.

[Jim Nilsen]

I just recieved my Pegasus racing parts catalog and happened to see a bolt in roll cage that is SCCA approved. That's right SCCA approved. You can't get much better than that for approval.

The brand is Autopower and they have kits for cars up to 3,000lb and 4,000lb.

The great news is that the price is:

$879.00 for either one. 4 to 8 weeks delivery and you just have to send them your make ,model ,and racing class you are planning on driving in.

This is more expensive than the materials to build a custom cage but way far less than paying to weld one in and it is removable if you ever decide you don't like part or all of it in the car or want to get another car and put it in ,if it is the same make and model.

They have other kits that are smaller for less and they have weld in kits. These kits look good in the drawings and would be an alternative that has not been mentioned here.

Gotta love the Pegasus catalog

[bbcc]

There was a thread a while ago showing the "worthiness" of Autopower bolt in cages. One pic was of a late model mustang that rolled and the cage punctured the floor at it's mounting points. Many said it was the fault of the cage. But it really comes down to how it is installed. Even for a bolt in cage, I'd say take it to a professional if you are not 100% sure what you are doing.

[NOT A TA]

I have an Autopower bar in my Carrera Cabrio. I'd installed a Hooker bolt in rollbar and did some other work on a Fox body for a member here and recieved the Autopower bar as a thank you gift. I can install or remove it in about 30-45 minutes.

Convertible cars are required to have a bar even for HPDEs and most show up with bolt ins. The Autopower bars are commonly used. For someone who might only go to a track once or twice a year for HPDEs with their DD and doesn't want a bar in the car all the time it's an option. Others start with a bolt in and then upgrade to weld ins as needs or funds are arise and then sell the bolt in.

There are a lot of strong opinions about bars/cages/bolt ins/pre made kits/hand fabricated/chromoly etc. In the end it's up to the car owner and occupants to weigh their options and decide what if any risks they are willing to take and what their budget and intended use is. Saving up 4 or 5 grand for a full cage job can take the fun out of owning the car while a few hundred bucks for a bolt in bar could get them out on track learning while they keep saving. I stopped using my cars for anything for over a year while saving up for my safety equipment then spent twice what I'd budgeted. It was a decision that was hard to make.

A cage and safety equipment like I have in my Firebird is serious overkill for most of the people on this forum. The reality is that most of the cars will never see a full size track, Land Speed Race, or open road race nevermind move up to the classes that require heavy duty safety equipment. How much time will they realisticly spend at high speeds? The dream is there but the reality is that few attend. I invite people to every track day I go to and no one signs up. Autocross and drag race test and tunes are much more likely to be something that people actually do because it's cheaper and more easily accessable, shorter travel distances, no overnight stays needed etc. plus there are less safety requirements.

The cost of track days is much much higher than most people think. I've figured it out and for me with my car it costs roughly 1,000.00 per day to go to a HPDEs. You wouldn't think it'd cost that much but with our type cars it does. I've also talked to the American Iron guys that race door to door about expenses and they say about 1500.00 per day if nothing goes wrong. So at 1,000.00 per day how often are the members here really going to go to a full size track?

[vintageracer]

I have 4 cars with cages installed in the cars. Only 1 car is a dedicated racecar. A cage is "cool" looking and a well designed and executed cage is a wonderful and excellent safety addition. A hack job cage or poorly designed cage can be a serious safety hazard in a car that is primarily a street car/weekend fun car.

Having said all that give serious consideration to the ultimate use of your car. A cage in a predominately street/weekend use car may not be the best idea.

As mentioned above, read the older threads that extensively discuss the "pro's and con's" of having a cage in your car before you make the decision that "I gotta have a cage in my car".

[Jim Nilsen]

I have an Autopower bar in my Carrera Cabrio. I'd installed a Hooker bolt in rollbar and did some other work on a Fox body for a member here and recieved the Autopower bar as a thank you gift. I can install or remove it in about 30-45 minutes.

Convertible cars are required to have a bar even for HPDEs and most show up with bolt ins. The Autopower bars are commonly used. For someone who might only go to a track once or twice a year for HPDEs with their DD and doesn't want a bar in the car all the time it's an option. Others start with a bolt in and then upgrade to weld ins as needs or funds are arise and then sell the bolt in.

There are a lot of strong opinions about bars/cages/bolt ins/pre made kits/hand fabricated/chromoly etc. In the end it's up to the car owner and occupants to weigh their options and decide what if any risks they are willing to take and what their budget and intended use is. Saving up 4 or 5 grand for a full cage job can take the fun out of owning the car while a few hundred bucks for a bolt in bar could get them out on track learning while they keep saving. I stopped using my cars for anything for over a year while saving up for my safety equipment then spent twice what I'd budgeted. It was a decision that was hard to make.

A cage and safety equipment like I have in my Firebird is serious overkill for most of the people on this forum. The reality is that most of the cars will never see a full size track, Land Speed Race, or open road race nevermind move up to the classes that require heavy duty safety equipment. How much time will they realisticly spend at high speeds? The dream is there but the reality is that few attend. I invite people to every track day I go to and no one signs up. Autocross and drag race test and tunes are much more likely to be something that people actually do because it's cheaper and more easily accessable, shorter travel distances, no overnight stays needed etc. plus there are less safety requirements.

The cost of track days is much much higher than most people think. I've figured it out and for me with my car it costs roughly 1,000.00 per day to go to a HPDEs. You wouldn't think it'd cost that much but with our type cars it does. I've also talked to the American Iron guys that race door to door about expenses and they say about 1500.00 per day if nothing goes wrong. So at 1,000.00 per day how often are the members here really going to go to a full size track?

Really good point about the cost of track days. I was able to keep most of the cost down for me last year at the Motorstate to below $750 for the wekend but it was close by relatively speaking.

You views about cages are sensible as you look at the way it is installed as the most imporant factor and that is the case with all of the equipment that goes into a car.

When it's your time to go ,let's hope it just means , LET'S GO RACING

[Jim Nilsen]

There was a thread a while ago showing the "worthiness" of Autopower bolt in cages. One pic was of a late model mustang that rolled and the cage punctured the floor at it's mounting points. Many said it was the fault of the cage. But it really comes down to how it is installed. Even for a bolt in cage, I'd say take it to a professional if you are not 100% sure what you are doing.

I looked at that crash so many times wondering what went wrong and came to the conclusion that the floor was what failed. Why there wasn't reinforcement added to spread the load on the floor like is required in any welded in cage is still making me wonder. I haven't read the instruction sheet from autopower for the bolt in cages but it would seem that they would explain that the area of the bolted floor section has to be reinforced?

That was a sad accident and proof that you don't have to be going really high speed to roll over. But it won't stop me from living life the way we do. That's why we call it LIVING!

[Damn True]

There was a thread a while ago showing the "worthiness" of Autopower bolt in cages. One pic was of a late model mustang that rolled and the cage punctured the floor at it's mounting points. Many said it was the fault of the cage. But it really comes down to how it is installed. Even for a bolt in cage, I'd say take it to a professional if you are not 100% sure what you are doing.

FWIW, that cage was installed exactly as the instructions indicated.

It was a crap design and should never have been spec'd by the builder.

Excellent points in previous posts about the need for serious soul searching and research before pulling the trigger on a cage.

[Jim Nilsen]

On the lighter side of the subject.

Does adding a roll cage make it legally " handicapped accessible"

[ScottT]

I will be driving it mainly on the street, but will have 550hp out of the gate, but want to get it to 800 rwhp with a turbo kit by next year. So I think a cage with harnesses is a good idea. Plus if I get in a wreck the la belts won't do much good, and can't mount a harness without a cage. I just want to be safe, and am willing to pay more for a custom cage if that's what I need to be safe driving it on the street without a helmet. On that note, anyone know a good custom cage builder in WA state?

[ScottT]

and yes the tiger cage looks cool. But I don't think if I get T-boned or roll its going to help much.

[castine917]

all cages custom or bolt in have their own set of pros and cons. a main hoop that is near the head could mean contact between cage and head vs main hoop farther back from head could mean roof cave in to head in rollover. both of those would be in a 4 or 6 point type cage. the tiger cage makes the legal safety disclaimer but many cages are built as chassis stiffeners first and safety second. it is not a intentional occurrence but a cause and effect, pro and con of any changes or design. same as sometimes a seatbelt can be unsafe in some situations.

[Jim Nilsen]

FWIW, that cage was installed exactly as the instructions indicated.

It was a crap design and should never have been spec'd by the builder.

Excellent points in previous posts about the need for serious soul searching and research before pulling the trigger on a cage.

Seems like it should have never been approved by the SCCA either if it was one of the designs that was. I wonder if they are reconsidering any approval if there was one? That was one freak accident and proves that there is always risk no matter how prepared you try to be.

Remeber John Milner got killed by a drunk driver in American Graffiti. Live by the car ,die by the car a friend of mine would say.

I know that one day I will die trying to live life to it's fullest and if I am afraid to do what I love I will live a life full of fear.