Paddle shifter/ trans controller lag times.

[professor_speed]

Maybe this has been covered but I can't find the info so maybe someone can help. I'm wonder what the lag times are for various paddle shifters and transmission control boxes? Which ones are fastest?
I know many have said the biggest lag is in the transmission it self. I'm sure that's true in stockist transmissions builds. What about a 4l80 with all the tricks? I know Glide th350/th400 speed manual valve bodys shift basically as fast as you can move the shifter (when at wot) and reason why an electronic 4 speed can't?
I know twist machine said their paddles have a .125 sec lag built into there paddles, That seems like an eternity for the signal to get to the box. (I'm not trying to knocking there product) It seems times get compounded. paddle lag+ box lag + trans lag. A good DCT has completed a shift before the signal is even to the trans box. (new 8l90e is said to shift at .120 I've hear that the 6l80e tuned well can get .100 shifts)
Will there be less lag time If I go with direct wired buttons or switches vs one of the wireless options?
It seems the PCS 2000 and the Compushift are the most popular boxes, which one executes the shift command faster?
I'm just trying to eliminate as much lag as possible in the whole system. I was leaning towards the PCS set up due to simple display and what seems like a lot of tuneablity, I emailed them and got no response.

Thanks, in advance for any help.

[Poorhousenext]

Read post 10 of thread below. Watch video in post 8.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ter-is-it-fast

[professor_speed]

I have watched and read every piece of relevant info. (still can't find my answer) Lydia seems to shift fast but you don't get see when the shift is initiated. post 10 talks about a 4l60e which works completely different from a 4l80e.(inherently slower shifting) It also says most of the delay is in the trans which is true for a stock transmission. A properly built automatic with a MVB shifts as soon as you hit the shifter Why can't one these paddle shifted electronic transmission shift as fast a well build MVB? Lets take the transmission out of the equation what is the actual total electronic delay is my question? We know twist machine paddles add 125 milliseconds? what about the pcs paddles? what about the controllers, what do they add? will wired switches eliminate the 125 milliseconds that the paddles add?

This why a 4l60e is inherently slower. The 4L60/65/700r4 is really a two-speed transmission with overdrive.
-two planetaries
-low for "first"
-overdrives low for "second"
-Direct for "third"
-overdrives direct for "fourth"
-band engages overdrive
-clutch pack engages direct

The 4L80/85 is actually a 4-speed
-three planetaries
-clutch pack for forward (first)
-clutch pack for intermediate (second)
-clutch pack for direct (third)
-clutch pack for overdrive (fourth) (splitting 1 and 2 with the od section is how pcs/tci gets 6 speeds, similar to how a 4l60 works)
-has 2 bands, but they are for reverse and overrun, NOT shifting

The problem with bands (especially when used twice per shift cycle) used for shifting is that they cannot be overworked without becoming harsh. The band is wrapped around the reverse input clutch drum in the 4L60 and is used for second and fourth. The more pressure is put on a band the more self energizing they become, and it will start grabbing, causing jolting shifts instead of firm shifts.
The 80 uses only clutch packs to shift and each shift is a single event. It is more more precise, responds much more linearly to line pressure increases or to a shift kit, and it transfers power effortlessly.

The 80/85 is not just stronger, it's designed far better.

[professor_speed]

Its been 2 weeks, I have to save I'm disappointed that PCS didn't respond in a forum that they sponsor, But they Never responded to my email either.

[csouth]

Its been 2 weeks, I have to save I'm disappointed that PCS didn't respond in a forum that they sponsor, But they Never responded to my email either.

Have you tried calling them? I know sometimes Jay from PCS is traveling or out of the country as they have a lot of military contracts.

[professor_speed]

Have you tried calling them? I know sometimes Jay from PCS is traveling or out of the country as they have a lot of military contracts.

I understand priority, but a company that doesn't answer a simple email, will not get my money. Decided I would upgrade my Holley HP to the Dominator. Im thinking about using wired column mounted paddle shifters to eliminate all possible lag.

[csouth]

I understand priority, but a company that doesn't answer a simple email, will not get my money. Decided I would upgrade my Holley HP to the Dominator. Im thinking about using wired column mounted paddle shifters to eliminate all possible lag.

I understand. I also know a lot of us put too much weight on email when the phone that's been around forever still exists. There are plenty of threads with disgruntled customers on this forum who come here to ask questions and never once pick up the phone to call. Good luck

[professor_speed]

I understand. I also know a lot of us put too much weight on email when the phone that's been around forever still exists. There are plenty of threads with disgruntled customers on this forum who come here to ask questions and never once pick up the phone to call. Good luck

Very true I should have just found there #and called. At the time there was no phone number listed in the contact section of their website which I found odd for a company like this. Since then the site has been updated and the tech number is in multiple places. along answerers to some of the questions I asked. Good for them,(and other potential customers) they make some innovative products and they are definitely an asset to the automotive community in general.

[andrewb70]

Have you talked to Steve at Twist Machine?

Andrew

[socoken]

Please pass on any info you get. I have a 4l80e that I am building. If I knew I could have quick shifts with a paddle, I would love to have it. I know it wont ever be "double clutch manual supercar" fast shifting, but if it was faster than a late model Camaro ss with 6l80e and paddles, I would pony up for it.

[Steve Chryssos]

Please pass on any info you get. I have a 4l80e that I am building. If I knew I could have quick shifts with a paddle, I would love to have it. I know it wont ever be "double clutch manual supercar" fast shifting, but if it was faster than a late model Camaro ss with 6l80e and paddles, I would pony up for it.

I think we've exchanged emails. Yes, you can have very quick shifts if your trans is built properly, run the proper torque converter and our controller/calibration.

[Steve Chryssos]

I know twist machine said their paddles have a .125 sec lag built into there paddles, That seems like an eternity for the signal to get to the box. (I'm not trying to knocking there product) It seems times get compounded. paddle lag+ box lag + trans lag. A good DCT has completed a shift before the signal is even to the trans box. (new 8l90e is said to shift at .120 I've hear that the 6l80e tuned well can get .100 shifts)
Will there be less lag time If I go with direct wired buttons or switches vs one of the wireless options?
It seems the PCS 2000 and the Compushift are the most popular boxes, which one executes the shift command faster?
I'm just trying to eliminate as much lag as possible in the whole system. I was leaning towards the PCS set up due to simple display and what seems like a lot of tuneablity, I emailed them and got no response.

Thanks, in advance for any help.

Professor,
You will never be satisfied if you believe that 125 milliseconds is an eternity. A blink of an eye takes 300 to 400 milliseconds. Our system CAN shift as fast or faster than a manual valve body if the trans is built properly and the correct torque converter is employed. In your manual valve body scenario, it takes more than a half second just to shove a gear lever. Then add in the shift time.

There will be no cut and dry answer for shift times because it varies per gear and under varying load scenarios -- and of course per installation. I'm not quite sure what you are building but, if fastest possible shift times are your lowest common denominator, then go with a 6L.
Steve