1st Gen Camaro subframes...

[Nasty N8]

I'm trying to get an idea and poll the crowd on here, as I just recently acquired a pair of '69 Camaro's and I plan to do a complete build on one of them, but I've had this thought and question in my mind about what the majority of all you Pro-Touring guys are using for front subframes, and suspension setups on your 1st gens.

How many of you just opted for:
Aftermarket subframe with aftermarket components?
Factory Subframe with aftermarket components?
Factory subframe?

I've also had the idea to build a vintage racer, and curious as to what the "norm" is on here.

Any pics, and setups would be greatly appreciated!

[chocthunder]

I went with factory subframe with after market components. For me this is the most affordable option. I am using Hotchkiss components. For my skill level I believe this will be more than enough.

[Nasty N8]

That brings up a good point, what do you use your Camaro for? Daily, Track, AutoX?
How happy are you with your setup?

[chocthunder]

I have just recently discovered autoXX so I don't have much experience at it yet. The car is a daily driver with just 3 inch drop springs and leafs. I will have Hotchkiss front and rear sway bars on in a couple of weeks. I figured I would evolve the car as my skills improved.
The car has not seen any track time yet, that will be in the future.

[Rod]

I went with factory subframe with after market components. For me this is the most affordable option. I autoX and big track along with that the car is a DD (Daily Driver)

[srh3trinity]

I have a second gen and I opted for a scott mock subframe. It uses c6 control arms, uprights and a fox body mustang. Replacement parts are available and cheap and I am running c6 brakes with pads and rotors available at most any parts store. I did the math and I have about $1000-1500 more than building a stock sub. Not bad in my opinion. This is compared to using dse, ridetech or speedtech parts on a stocker.

[dbackse350]

Stock subframe, welds grounds down, rails smoothed, dents pounded out of belly pan; aftermarket components, e.g. Global West, Hotchkiss... Use car only for shows and occasional cruising. Hard to justify aftermarket sub if not doing autocross, IMO.

[Spitfire100]

I have recently finished a 69, and used the stock subframe with all Ride Tech components handles great, and reasonably priced. I am also working on one with DSE complete subframe more expensive, but an excellent piece of engineering. PM me and i will give you one piece of advice that can help you make a decision. Also welcome to the site from a fellow SC native.

Dale K

[cornfedbill]

I am going with the stock subframe with modifications.

[bret]

There are number of really good aftermarket subframes available today. DSE, Roadster Shop, Speed Tech, and TCI come immediately to mind. And lots of good reasons to choose an aftermarket unit...if yours is missing, bent, rusted,etc.

Why choose the stock subframe with aftermarket components? Price, simplicity, availability, function.

Price - obviously less since you already have the subframe.

Simplicity - no cutting, no welding, the Tru Turn system is about a 3 hour installation on a finished car.

Availability - you've already got the oem subframe and the rest is but a Fedex ride away.

Function - with the right components, as good or better than a fabricated subframe. Indulge my bias as I recommend our Tru Turn system that will allow the use of a 275mm front tire, increases camber gain, and reduces bumpsteer to near zero.

The playing field is so level right now that there is no clearcut choice. Its a matter of what criteria is most important to you and who will give you the best service and tech advice.

Just make sure its got ridetech shocks on it

[JEFFTATE]

Like others said ,
If you are on a low budget ( like most of us ) , I'd use the factory subframe ( as long as it's not bent ) with bolt on components.
You can get a great result , and a great driving and handling car with a bolt-on setup.
If you have a huge pot of money and want the quickest thing to compete at events with , get an aftermarket subframe and suspension .

My car has the stock frame with a Ride Tech Tru-Turn System, a GM quick ratio steering box , Herb Adams sway-bars, Landrum Springs , 17" American Racing Wheels ( cheap) , and Falken Azenis Tires . ( And STOCK '69 Camaro 10" disc brakes ! )
It's a mix-match , but it works well , and it was cheap ..

It's not the fastest thing at events , but who cares ?
I'm usually in the top half of the field .
As I get money , I'll improve it .

[Steve Chryssos]

I've built and driven cars with both upgraded stock clips and good aftermarket clips. Upgraded stock clips are a big improvement over bone stock clips but not as good as a proper aftermarket clip that allows for rack and pinion steering and offers radically revised suspension geometry. I really like my front steer rack and pinion steering. It simply cannot be achieved with the stock crossmember in the way. It also eliminates the steering box which aside from being heavy, encroaches on header clearance.
I have one of the very first aftermarket clips ever produced. From back in 1999. It cost me a whopping $1500 -- which seemed like a world of money back then. It's the same kind that's under The Mule. Stielow and I both hacked them into pieces and made a bunch of changes. Nowadays, they cost a fortune, but work out of the box.

[Rod]

I know I answered before, but I just wanted to point out that the stock subframe works well, and just needs a little touchup to work great, what an after market frame has over the stock fame is that there

(1) stiffer
(2) better geometry and the ability to run a wider front tire (most of them)
(3) lighter (some about 30lbs)

so to make the stock frame better and address the issues and get up to date

(1) stiffer, what I did first was weld up all the seems and added aluminum frame mounts, the frames from factory were just stitch welded, and that was fine for the 6 inch wide bias ply tires, sloppy steering box, soft stock springs and rubber bushings, making the old setup a Flex-i-flyer
(2) better geometry, the Tru-turn (allows a 10" wide wheel) reduces bump-steer and the tall spindles help the camber curve
(3) lighter, I couldn't lighten the frame itself so I lightened the surrounding components so with a coilover and tube arms the frame drops a lot of weight, over the stock 40+ year old stamped steel arms, and clunky springs

hope that helps

[DJW32]

I've built and driven cars with both upgraded stock clips and good aftermarket clips. Upgraded stock clips are a big improvement over bone stock clips but not as good as a proper aftermarket clip that allows for rack and pinion steering and offers radically revised suspension geometry. I really like my front steer rack and pinion steering. It simply cannot be achieved with the stock crossmember in the way. It also eliminates the steering box which aside from being heavy, encroaches on header clearance.
I have one of the very first aftermarket clips ever produced. From back in 1999. It cost me a whopping $1500 -- which seemed like a world of money back then. It's the same kind that's under The Mule. Stielow and I both hacked them into pieces and made a bunch of changes. Nowadays, they cost a fortune, but work out of the box.

Steve,
do you run no wheel well?

[Steve Chryssos]

It's a chopped wheel well as shown. Protects the fender from those "reverse" dents, saves some weight and makes the car a little easier to wrench.

[Steve Chryssos]

Here's a kicker: If you held a gun to my head and forced me to clip only one end of the car -- either front subframe swap or link-type rear suspension, which would I pick?

I would choose to convert the rear suspension first. To me, replacing leaf springs with a good "Link Type" suspension is more important than swapping out the front clip.

[bret]

Here's a kicker: If you held a gun to my head and forced me to clip only one end of the car -- either front subframe swap or link-type rear suspension, which would I pick?

I would choose to convert the rear suspension first. To me, replacing leaf springs with a good "Link Type" suspension is more important than swapping out the front clip.

Agreed. By a lot.

[Build-It-Break-It]

Has anyone narrowed the frame rails for tire/rim clearance? Not to hijack the thread but I'm in the same boat. I figured around $3500 for afx tall spindles,spc upper and lower control arms and speedtech coil over conversion. But that seems really close to a complete speedtech subframe...

[Rod]

speedtech is great stuff but your not getting those AFX spindles in their 4999.00 package(at least not in the camaro frame) those suckers are another 1200 bucks!! I was just reading the included parts list, don't get me wrong(I personally want one of their bare frames for my car) Im just saying the pricing for youre want list and the trick frame are not close

[Build-It-Break-It]

True, the spindles are the main component . My best bet will probably be use my factory frame and upgraded components. I just want a wider wheel and the factory frame limits that. I don't think you can use the afx spindles with the ridetech tru turn components. I'm ok narrowing the frame but want to see if anyone had done it to fit wider wheels with success.