Help! First gen Firebird, poorboy build

[Buryingthesun]

Ok, so I have a 67' firebird. It's a true survivor, not much need to be "fixed" aside from updating and restoring. I want to set the car up to handel like a newer car and do some auto-x and HPD events. as of right now it 100% bone stock, I just purchased new Moog LCA balljoints, Hotchkis front sway bar and end links, Global West LCA bshings. I want to address the upper control arms in the same manner but my budget for this is low and slow to build back up do to other bills. so when I do have some change to spend I usually stash it for the firebird. I dont think I should pull it appart until I have all the parts to do the suspension. Ideally I would like to conver to coilovers in the front as well but I don't plan on having the money for that saved up until the end of summer.

should I stock pile all of my parts and do it in one shot or put it together as I collect them? also im not sure if the produts I have purchased are the best b ang for my buck. But from what I have researched they are the best quality products with out having a trust fund to pay for it

any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

[Buryingthesun]

The coilovers are my main concern right now, I don't know if I should get a set of Afco/QA1/ridetech or get something different like the Chicane kit, I would like to retain the factory control arms and just replace the rubber bushings with the Global West Delrin bushings so I dont know if they will be compatable with coilovers

[BCHALK22]

Sounds like a good plan to stock up the parts. Thats what I am doing with my 69 camaro. I am enjoying it since its summer time and it runs great, why take it apart. Short answer for your question is just drive the thing this summer. The winter is a great time especially since you will have more time to save and buy more parts. I also have heard good things about the QA1 single adjustable coil overs. Have fun with the car for now. Just my opinion.

[Buryingthesun]

Thank you BCHALK22, I have not found any info on running factory control arms with the QA1 coilovers, I don't know if there are any issues. Especially if the do the G-Mod to my car.

[Smoker03]

I have used the QA1 coilovers with great success. If you are upgrading to the GW delalum bushings with stock arms and the G mod I think it will work great. I wouldn't step up to the chicane or ride tech coilovers unless you are going to a new upper arm with better geometry. Make sure you go with at least a 450lb spring rate on the QA1. Both Speedtech and GW use the 450 spring in their small block applications

[robscar]

Nice car, exact color as the 67 survivor Bird that I just picked up.
I'm going to keep the total stock look with a few hidden mods, similar to yours. However, you did not say what you are doing with the brakes. You may want to incorporate that into your build, as that offers additional options with spindles and drops. Also, what about the rear suspension? Yours should have the mono leaf rear springs, which I would think would not be the best for your intended purpose.
I'm keeping mine very mild and low cost. Tall upper ball joints, tall outer tie rod ends, and offset upper shafts. If I want I can box the ears of the upper arms for a little extra strength since it will not be seen. Then it's good shocks, sways, and new multi leaf rear springs, along with a factory appearing front disc kit from Inline tube.

[Buryingthesun]

Nice car, exact color as the 67 survivor Bird that I just picked up.
I'm going to keep the total stock look with a few hidden mods, similar to yours. However, you did not say what you are doing with the brakes. You may want to incorporate that into your build, as that offers additional options with spindles and drops. Also, what about the rear suspension? Yours should have the mono leaf rear springs, which I would think would not be the best for your intended purpose.
I'm keeping mine very mild and low cost. Tall upper ball joints, tall outer tie rod ends, and offset upper shafts. If I want I can box the ears of the upper arms for a little extra strength since it will not be seen. Then it's good shocks, sways, and new multi leaf rear springs, along with a factory appearing front disc kit from Inline tube.

I do have plans for the brakes, I will be running a set for C6 disc's on the front with the KORE3 hubs. I just need to decide what wheel to run on the car. Im almost thinking of going with an old school NASCAR look for the car but its all still up in the air. I do have a mono-leaf rear spring set-up and would like a bit more, I have been looking at the Hotchkis springs but I would like to do some more research before I make the purchase.

[BCHALK22]

Yeah I think I'm going with the hotchkis leafs and doing a set of Pacer Daytona wheels for that almost NASCAR look and they are cheap too. I think that setup would look good on your car. There's a Nova I saw in the street fighter thread with similar wheels and it looks good.

[BMR Sales]

Love the early Birds!!!! I just missed a 68 Project car here in Florida, but I am still looking! i appreciate you are looking for the best bang for the buck......


I usually ask a few questions before I make any suggestions to determine the best possible bang for the buck.

I think many guys spend more than they need or will use. I pride myself in asking as many questions as possible before making a decision on what is best for the customers hard earned money.


First question is what do you have for goals for the car once it is done? Is it going to be a factory restoration, daily driver/weekend cruiser, weekend warrior/drag car, Pro-Touring/handling machine, etc.

Second question is do you have a specific budget in mind?

Lastly, do you plan to do the work yourself?



We offer a very affordable complete suspension that can be configured at slightly more than $5K once you pick your coil-overs





The rear suspension is a true "Bolt-on" kit that can be done with normal hand tools in a driveway.


Here is a install article that Super Chevy did a few years back:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...all/index.html


Here is a VERY informative tech article written by our R&D manager explaining what it does:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ems/index.html


We also offer a Torque Arm kit for guys who want a Ford 9" that includes a bare Strange housing for $600 more. Take a look at the link below detailing an install that a member here completed with our Ford 9 in. kit in his 1973 Firebird:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ght=TORQUE+ARM



Our new A-Arms are caster corrected and we now have a easy to install Coil-over conversion for your stock sub-frame:




While the G-mod is free, the tall ball joint is much simpler & more beneficial and can be done for a reasonable cost.

We mapped the camber curve of the G-mod vs. Tall ball joint vs. Tall spindle & tall ball joint. We found that Tall Ball Joint gives a little better camber curve than the G-mod does & about .2-.3 degrees more negative camber per 1/2" of compression.

During our test against the Tall Spindle we assumed a 25" tall tire with a 6" frame height. The tall ball joint was tested against an AFX spindle & the camber curve remained similar until the bump reached 1.5" from static. At that point the curve became a little more aggressive, gaining -.3 at 1.5" compression, -.4 at 2", -.5 at 2.5", and -.6 at 3" over the tall ball joint.

These numbers are better & although the tall spindle would be the ideal choice the “bang-for-the-buck” value of the tall ball joints cannot be discounted. In a nutshell it is our opinion that for the average enthusiast the tall ball joint setup improves the camber curve sufficiently for most driving requirements.

The tall ball joints will definitely make a vast improvement to your car. It offers a better camber curve, increased positive caster capability, and a lowered CG which is what we are all looking for.

Your build recipe will accomplish all of that and at minimal cost. We have also re-designed our 1st Gen F-Body A-arms with increased positive caster & they will require less shim stack to achieve proper camber settings on lowered vehicles. We added 2 degrees of caster to the lower A-arm & 2 degrees on the upper.

The equal split of caster between the upper & lower arms keeps the wheel properly centered in the wheel well and allows plenty of positive caster without a lot of staggered shims.

[Buryingthesun]

^ thank you BMR for your suggestions, I want to keep the car close to stock (parts wise) I know by just replacing bushings and old ball joints I can achive the suspension dynamics I want. I would be interested in the rear torque arm kit, I like the idea of moving away from leafsprings. . . my only problem with that is cost. For the price of a rear torque arm I could easlily update the rear of my car to something im comfortable with. I do want to do "some" road racing with this car at limerock and watkins glenn, BUT its main purpose if going to go get ice cream and get me to work on nice days.

The cars whole theme is staying as close to the "stock-look" as possible but I would like to incorporate some of the old Trans-Am racing ideas too it.

[Smoker03]

If you are trying to keep that stock look and upgrade to great handling on a budget, I like your ideas for the front. I would just recommend a GW or Speedtech upper arm. The caster gain is huge. Use the G-mod since its free and the QA1s work great for the weekend warrior cruising. I am using GW rear L2R2 leafs with delalum bushings and QA1 rear shocks. It rides great and handle great. The hotchkis stuff works very well, I just feel the spring rates are a little light.

[DEIGuy38]

If your going to QA1 coil overs just to be able to adjust ride height here is another option, http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-A...cer,23948.html Just weld a bolt to the top and there is already a hole behind the shock mount to bolt up in the frame. Run a shorter coil http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage...ate,59216.html and this will be as close to stock looking and as budget as you will get. Add the G-mod and your good. $70 for a pair of springs and $ 70 for a pair of adjusters get some shocks and your ready to go for much less than $ 500 for coil overs.

[Buryingthesun]

If your going to QA1 coil overs just to be able to adjust ride height here is another option, http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-A...cer,23948.html Just weld a bolt to the top and there is already a hole behind the shock mount to bolt up in the frame. Run a shorter coil http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage...ate,59216.html and this will be as close to stock looking and as budget as you will get. Add the G-mod and your good. $70 for a pair of springs and $ 70 for a pair of adjusters get some shocks and your ready to go for much less than $ 500 for coil overs.

Im ok with purchasing the coilovers, Im just not looking to replace my whole subframe with a tubular aerospace designed unit. . . Its unreasonable imo and not needed to make this car handel good. Realistically I would love to have coilovers front and rear but I can do with just front and replace the rear springs with units more suited for my needs. Not to say in the future I would not upgrade the rear to coilovers, but at this point I cant drop that kind of cash into it.

[BMR Sales]

^ thank you BMR for your suggestions, I want to keep the car close to stock (parts wise) I know by just replacing bushings and old ball joints I can achive the suspension dynamics I want.

Completely understood...... are you planning on retaining the stock A-Arms, but going with Poly bushings & tall ball joints possibly?

I would be interested in the rear torque arm kit, I like the idea of moving away from leafsprings. . . my only problem with that is cost. For the price of a rear torque arm I could easlily update the rear of my car to something im comfortable with.

The cars whole theme is staying as close to the "stock-look" as possible but I would like to incorporate some of the old Trans-Am racing ideas too it.

Yes, it really boils down to what you are looking to spend vs. what you want from the car..... Leaf springs are fine for most builds, but as described by our very own R&D manager in the CHP article they are limited by design:

"Leaf springs were standard fare in many muscle cars, and have been around for over a century. Their simplistic design, ease of packaging, and economic advantages make them ideal for a variety of applications. While they have had their place in the automotive industry, that time is almost over. Even light-duty trucks have switched to link-style suspension systems due to the ride quality advantages associated with them. A leaf spring by design is expected to support the weight of the chassis, limit axlewrap, control lateral and braking forces, and maintain a consistent wheelbase under acceleration and braking. Unfortunately, leaf springs perform all of these functions adequately at best. It’s just too much to expect out of a single component. Over the years, enthusiasts and racers have tweaked leaf-spring suspensions in an effort to increase handling and traction abilities. High-rate leaf springs combined with adjustable shocks, a sway bar, and a Watt’s linkage can work really well on a road course, but it does so at the expense of ride quality. Additionally, the car will still have axlewrap problems and minimal adjustment capabilities."

Im ok with purchasing the coilovers, Im just not looking to replace my whole subframe with a tubular aerospace designed unit. . . Its unreasonable imo and not needed to make this car handel good.

Your are absolutely correct that the aftermarket Sub-Frames albeit stunning in design the advantages/dollar are not what they were a few years ago.

Realistically I would love to have coilovers front and rear but I can do with just front and replace the rear springs with units more suited for my needs. Not to say in the future I would not upgrade the rear to coilovers, but at this point I cant drop that kind of cash into it.

Our coilover conversion kit is very affordable at around $150 + cost of coilover of choice. It will give you more travel than the Pro-Coil kit and the ability to remove w/o touching the lower ball joints. We sell the QA1 Pro-Coil as a great alternative if you would like a simple no-mod coil-over set up as well.

It simply boils down to what you are willing to do, what you want from the car and if you have a suspension budget in mind.

[Buryingthesun]

Our coilover conversion kit is very affordable at around $150 + cost of coilover of choice. It will give you more travel than the Pro-Coil kit and the ability to remove w/o touching the lower ball joints. We sell the QA1 Pro-Coil as a great alternative if you would like a simple no-mod coil-over set up as well.

It simply boils down to what you are willing to do, what you want from the car and if you have a suspension budget in mind.

I am quite interested in this set-up, I will be in contact

[BMR Sales]

Sounds like a plan...... I look forward to helping you out.

[First Bird]

I have a 1968 Firebird Poorboy build too. You didn't mention if you have done subframe connectors or solid subframe bushings yet.

[Buryingthesun]

I have a 1968 Firebird Poorboy build too. You didn't mention if you have done subframe connectors or solid subframe bushings yet.

I will be doing both, I just have not ordered them up yet

[nzjkb5]

I am also planning a "poor boy" build of the 67 Firebird I have owned since 1990. I had sort-of decided on the Hotchkis TVS system, plus their control arms and shocks so that everything would be designed to work together. But I keep discovering items I forgot to include in my original budget calculations, plus my disposable income recently took a big hit, so I am considering cutting back on the suspension components, and the control arms right now appear to be the "least necessary" item on that list.

One of the reasons I had decided on the Hotchkis control arms is that they have Delrin bushings. I have seen complaints on polyurethane bushings that they squeak, and that even greasing them only makes them quiet for a few days. Anybody here have that experience?



Rich, the tall ball joint option sounds interesting, but I don't see them on your website. Will they work with stock 14" Pontiac Rally wheels? New wheels and tires won't fit in my budget for a while.

[MCB Matt]

Our customers really seem to appreciate the Hotchkis sub connectors, they are a good fit, tight to the floor and don't hang down. Powdercoat is nice and all coated hardware included!

Matt