Tremec TKO, Shifting problems

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Tom:

TnBlkC230WZ.... Your 1st response in this thread to Gene, I think you misunderstood what he was trying to convey. Use the palm of your hand and throw the shifter straight forward out of 2nd and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own (using a VERY slight diagonal movement).
AS for your comparison between Richmond and the TKO, I cannot speak to the Richmond as I have no real world experience with them. On a TKO however, I do have one and it shifts like butter. 99.9% of the time, the shifting woes you read about is the direct result of driver error and using the 4 speed technique on a 5 speed TKO. The only exception is as GMJim pointed out, back in late '05 (if I remember right) when Tremec had an issue with some loose toleranced shift lugs. They quickly and professionally fixed that issue and it is no more.
You rmain point of focus should be on what your plans are for your car? Horsepower and torque output, importance of overdrive, ease of installation etc..... If you're used to driving 4 speeds, then you too will have to re-learn how to drive, a 5 speed.


Richard
Tech Support

Rich,
Thanks for the input. I've driven 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds over the last 35 years. I don't like automatics; even my Mercedes is a 6 speed. I shift them all the same making the 2 -3 shift (that's the 1 - 2 sift on 3 speeds) by pushing straight up. If you push straight up on stick, it should go into 3rd gear. If your Competion Plus shifter doesn't automatically slide over when pushing up, then the shifter needs repair or replacement. The sure way of missing a gear is trying to move it to the right while shifting. I even taught my kids to make this shift with the palm of the hand.

As for the objectives for my car, It is a 71 Nova with a ZZ4 and M20. I may make a few changes, but even if I changed engines, I would be below 500 ft/lbs of torque. I really like the 1 -4 gearing of the TKO600. It matches well to my 3.73 axle. Given most of my cruising is in the 45 - 70 MPH range, I want an overdrive of .70 - .68. I've ruled out a T56 because I don't want to cut my floor brace, but the 2.66 first gear and .80/.62 overdrive gearing would be perfect. I'm even looking at the G-Force T-5 with .73 overdrive.

[KeislerRich]

Rich,
Thanks for the input. I've driven 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds over the last 35 years. I don't like automatics; even my Mercedes is a 6 speed. I shift them all the same making the 2 -3 shift (that's the 1 - 2 sift on 3 speeds) by pushing straight up. If you push straight up on stick, it should go into 3rd gear. If your Competion Plus shifter doesn't automatically slide over when pushing up, then the shifter needs repair or replacement. The sure way of missing a gear is trying to move it to the right while shifting. I even taught my kids to make this shift with the palm of the hand.

As for the objectives for my car, It is a 71 Nova with a ZZ4 and M20. I may make a few changes, but even if I changed engines, I would be below 500 ft/lbs of torque. I really like the 1 -4 gearing of the TKO600. It matches well to my 3.73 axle. Given most of my cruising is in the 45 - 70 MPH range, I want an overdrive of .70 - .68. I've ruled out a T56 because I don't want to cut my floor brace, but the 2.66 first gear and .80/.62 overdrive gearing would be perfect. I'm even looking at the G-Force T-5 with .73 overdrive.

Well, it sounds like you have the techique perfected so shifting a TKO should be no problem.

AS for your Nova and gear "wishes", the only TKO in that criteria is the TKO-600 RR. It has the same gears as the TKO-600 except it has a .82 5th gear. With 3.73's, a .82 will not give you much overdrive at all.

On my mustang, I had the TKO-500 and 3.73 gears. Of course, 1st gear was a stump puller but after I got used to it, I loved it. As for 5th, it was the .68 and I was turning 2300rpm's at 70mph with a 25" tall tire.

Another crucial element of proper shifting, is the air gap in the clutch. After you've adjusted the clutch to where you want it, take a .030" feeler gauge and see if you can slide it between the clutch disc and the flywheel with the pedal pushed to the floor. On a diaphram style pressure plate, you should have a .030 air gap. This goes hand in hand with having a 1/4" gap between the face of the bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate with the pedal at the rest position. If you have the clutch set like that (1/4" gap) you should have no problem dis engaging the clutch. If you ARE having issues at the track, check the air gap and if needed, adjust the bearing a little closer to the fingers until you get the .030 air gap. This will give you maximum dis engagement and will rule any potential clutch issues with regard to missing shifts.


Richard
Tech Support

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.

I also have a stock GM Bellhousing and a stock GM Clutch.
Hmmm....

[GMJim]

Tom:
I am not familiar with the McLeod offset shifter, hopefully GMJim will chime in and offer up some more good advice. That sounds like one of their products.


Richard
Tech Support

Tom
The McLeod shifter is called the Slix Stick. We no longer sell that shifter. Not that it wasn't a good shifter, just that we are now affiliated with Hurst and developed the Blackjack to replace it. There are a lot of Slix Sticks out there and to my knowledge are still going strong. A fourth to fifth gear shift in a TKO was never intended to be a quick shift. The gate is too far over and getting it in 5th quickly as in a power shift won't work. Fifth gear is supposed to be a cruise only gear so shifting to fifth is done with purpose. The Road race as it's called .82 OD tranny is only an 18% drop and can be used as a performance gear in some cars equipped with the right rear gears but shifting to fifth is still done slowly.
Hope this helps.
Jim

[tomspo04]

Tom
The McLeod shifter is called the Slix Stick. We no longer sell that shifter. Not that it wasn't a good shifter, just that we are now affiliated with Hurst and developed the Blackjack to replace it. There are a lot of Slix Sticks out there and to my knowledge are still going strong. A fourth to fifth gear shift in a TKO was never intended to be a quick shift. The gate is too far over and getting it in 5th quickly as in a power shift won't work. Fifth gear is supposed to be a cruise only gear so shifting to fifth is done with purpose. The Road race as it's called .82 OD tranny is only an 18% drop and can be used as a performance gear in some cars equipped with the right rear gears but shifting to fifth is still done slowly.
Hope this helps.
Jim

Jim, Thanks for the input. I love the tranny; guess I just ned to get used to 5th.


Tom

[KeislerRich]

Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.

If it is a standard GM bell(aluminum) you can go in where the inspection cover attaches. I have done it that way every time I have done a clutch or TKO install here. If you are using a Lakewood or similiar, you really can't.

Air gap is critical as it ensures you get proper dis-engagement of the clutch. It becomes even more critical when you are into power shifting and running hard. As I said, it is just one way to either identify or eliminate the clutch from shifting woes.



Richard
Tech Support

[JEFFTATE]

If it is a standard GM bell(aluminum) you can go in where the inspection cover attaches. I have done it that way every time I have done a clutch or TKO install here.

Richard
Tech Support

I took the dust cover off and all I see is the flywheel.
How can you get to the actual clutch disc / pressure plate with a feeler gauge ??
I also looked through the hole where the clutch fork goes in.
I can't see any way to get to the clutch disc to check the air gap ??

My bellhousing doesn't have an inspection hole.
Just the hole where the clutch fork goes through..

Another thing I've noticed is that the plug in the front of my TKO is leaking.
I wonder if fluid contamination on the clutch could be causing the clutch disc to hang on the flywheel ??

I'm about to pull the transmission to replace the o-ring on the front plug.
And to replace the shifter lugs.

I'm thinking that replacing the shifter lugs , o-ring , double-checking the bellhousing alignment , and getting the clutch air-gap adjusted properly should fix my shifting problem.

[JEFFTATE]

BTW , I replaced the shift lugs.
I couldn't tell much difference in the new and old lugs.
But they actually made a difference.

[KeislerRich]

BTW , I replaced the shift lugs.
I couldn't tell much difference in the new and old lugs.
But they actually made a difference.

The difference in the lugs is in the "tab" on the bottom side of the lug and with the size of the chamfer on the edges of the lug. The "old" ones were still in spec but were on the highside of the tolerances. The "new" ones are on the low side of the tolerance from what I can tell.

As for checking the air gap thru a GM bell, try going in the through the starter pocket (starter removed obviously ). I was able to do it this way on cars I did here in house.



Richard
Tech Support

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks Rich.
I did notice the chamfer was a little more "open" ,
allowing the shifter to slide into 3rd gear a little better.

That's how I checked the air gap.
I thought about cutting a small inspection hole in the bottom of the bellhousing , but I didn't.
I didn't want to weaken it.