Tremec TKO, Shifting problems

[KeislerGene]

I used a old lakewood and dialed in pretty good with just filing the paint out the holes. I think I read somewhere that the older lakewoods were better than the newer ones...
Keith

This is true the hydro forms are miss shapen from many years of production. I heard it's the same thing with McLeod.






The 3rd gear shifting under load or higher Rpm can sometimes be related to the person shifting the trans. Sometimes you are over shifting the handle. If you take notice the Tremec shifter, ours and others have spring tension so when the handle comes out of 2nd it automatically centers for 3rd. If you are having an issue with it blocking that typically could be the issue. If it is grinding that means the snycros havent matched up typically at rpm above 6-6200.

When shifting try using just the palm of your hand when going from 2nd to 3rd. Let the shifter do the work.

Gene

[wiedemab]

It's interesting that you mention the "overshifting". I have a Pro5.0 and a Tremec in my Mustang and I literally do just what you said - put the palm of my hand on the shifter and push forward for 3rd. I'm far from being the best shifter in the world, but I don't seem to have too much trouble with hitting 3rd. My car rev limits at 6K though too.

One of my friends has a '67 Fairlane with a 514 and TKO600. He says that it will sometimes not go into 3rd - no grinding though. I'll bet he is overshifting it.

[GMJim]

This is true the hydro forms are miss shapen from many years of production. I heard it's the same thing with McLeod.

Gene
McLeod bell housings are not hydro formed.

[KeislerGene]

Gene
McLeod bell housings are not hydro formed.

Ok, they are not machined so how are they made? Maybe I used the wrong words. Are they not pressed around a stamp if you will?

[Bigblue73]

Gene, they are spinnings. Metal spinning that is, made a lathe looking machine that forms the blank around a mandrel with great precision. The cold forming of this metal actually reduced the stress that material sees and minimizes the "bounce back" from the forming process.

Check out this link - http://www.metalspinningworkshop.com/MovieClipTwo.html

[JEFFTATE]

I was at RTTH4 with my Firebird running a TKO600 and after the first two runs down the strip it would not go into 3rd gear to save my a$$. I am sure some of you noticed I missed 3rd several times. My brother called it running out of talent which was pretty funny. When I am driving it on the street it shifts great. I contacted CC5S and they put me in touch with Tremec. My TKO was built at the end of 05 and when I gave Tremec the numbers off the tag they said there was a problem with the shift lug design during the time mine was built that caused a shifting problem. I had the new lugs in my hand with in 3 days. I don't plan to replace them until this winter but when I do I will also recheck the run out before I reinstall the transmission. Just thought I would post this to add to the info on this thread if anyone else is running out of talent going into 3rd gear on the track.

Wow , its funny you should say this .
I'm having the same problem.
I thought it was just me.
Maybe I'll call Tremec.

[GMJim]

Not to confuse the mechanical problem that Tremec had a year or so ago with shifter lugs, shifting a five or six speed transmission from 2nd to 3rd is quite different than shifting a four speed. By applying a light right hand pressure while coming out of second will insure you go into the 3-4 gate with a four speed. Doing the same with a five or six speed could cause you to butt end the gate between 3rd and 5th causing a miss shift. Technique is important here. Just put the palm of your hand against the back of the shifter and shove it forward. This will allow the bias springs in the shifter (if your shifter has them) and the lighter ones in the transmission to center the stick in the 3-4 gate while the stick is going forward out of second and towards 3rd. The stock Tremec shifter and our Hurst Blackjack and Sidewinder shifters have this bias built in to them. This is something to consider if you wanna shift it quick! Though I have several friends that drag race and shift their TKO's at well past 6500 rpm without a problem, Tremec does not guarantee it will shift successfully beyond 6500.

Jeff Tate
The straight goods on the TKO shifter lug issue.
The TKO's affected by this particular 3rd gear shift issue were produced about a year ago. The problem was the shift lugs were machined slightly out of tolerance and was recognized almost immediately. Any of our customers that purchased transmissions a year or so ago that are just finishing up their projects and experience this problem can call us and we will arrange warranty through Tremec. We rotate our stock so any we received are long gone. We go through quite a few transmissions and we only had a few that were affected.

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks Jim ,
I bought my transmission from CS5S on 5/30/06.
Could it be one that is affected by the shift lug issue ?
Could I get you the serial number and see if it's one of them ?

Maybe it's just me.
I try not to put sideways pressure on the shifter when I'm shifting into
3rd gear , but maybe I'm doing it without realizing it.
Perhaps I need practice.

[KeislerRich]

As always, GMJim has put out some great information.

The most recurring questions that I am asked is how come I can't power shift 2nd to 3rd? I tell them the same thing GMJim has explained. When shifting out of second, try using the palm of your hand and simply throw the shifter straight forward with a VERY slight angle to the right. This will allow you to hit 3rd 99% of the time.

On a 4 speed car, when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, you have to go up, over and up again. On a TKO, if you use this method you will likely miss 3rd 99% of the time as you will end up hitting the gate between 3rd and 5th.

I personally use this method on my mustang and the only time I miss the shift is when my hand is faster than my feet.


Richard
Tech Support

[JEFFTATE]

Hmmmm.
I'm gonna' have to practice.

[GMJim]

Jeff
Call me or PM me your number. We can discuss the problem and if the lugs need to be replaced we can get this process started. If you want to try to change your shift technique first and see what happens just let me know how it goes. Like Richard says, we get a lot of calls regarding the 2 to 3 shift issue. The majority of the time it's shift technique. Old habits die hard! Practice practice practice.

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks Jim , I will get the serial # off the trans and call you.
I need more seat time and shifting practice too.

[tomspo04]

I've got the same problem with my TKO 600 going into 5th under a load. I've got about 600 miles on it. Is this the same issue? Thanks.

Tom

[KeislerRich]

Tom:
I personally have never heard of an issue shifting into 5th under load. Not sure what to advise you on that. Maybe GMJim can chime in and offer something, perhaps he's had that call?

The TKO's gates are evenly spaced (to the best of my knowledge) so I can rule out you overshifting when trying to hit 5th. The only thing I can come up with and I hate to say it, is driver error? maybe you're "trying to hard" to hit 5th under load? Not letting it "naturally" find 5th on it's own when you're on the gas?

Being that you have the TKO in 2nd gen Camaro, the shifter should be in what "we" call the mid-offset shift position. Basically that means that the shifter is hangin over the drivers side of the transmission. I don't know where you purchased the kit from but if it was a Keisler modified trans. then the shifter is offset to the driverside and is actually connected to the shifter rail via a link. If the bolts holding the link to the cup are not tight, then it might cause a hard to find 5th issue? Is this one of Keisler's or CC5S or someone elses? How is the shifter setup? Is it anything like I just described?


Richard
Tech Support

[TnBlkC230WZ]

When shifting try using just the palm of your hand when going from 2nd to 3rd. Let the shifter do the work.

Gene

I've never seen a street transmission you don't shift this way. Be they 4 speeds, 5 speeds or 6 speeds. The lone exeception being column shifters.

[tomspo04]

Tom:
I personally have never heard of an issue shifting into 5th under load. Not sure what to advise you on that. Maybe GMJim can chime in and offer something, perhaps he's had that call?

The TKO's gates are evenly spaced (to the best of my knowledge) so I can rule out you overshifting when trying to hit 5th. The only thing I can come up with and I hate to say it, is driver error? maybe you're "trying to hard" to hit 5th under load? Not letting it "naturally" find 5th on it's own when you're on the gas?

Being that you have the TKO in 2nd gen Camaro, the shifter should be in what "we" call the mid-offset shift position. Basically that means that the shifter is hangin over the drivers side of the transmission. I don't know where you purchased the kit from but if it was a Keisler modified trans. then the shifter is offset to the driverside and is actually connected to the shifter rail via a link. If the bolts holding the link to the cup are not tight, then it might cause a hard to find 5th issue? Is this one of Keisler's or CC5S or someone elses? How is the shifter setup? Is it anything like I just described?


Richard
Tech Support

Richard, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've got the Mcloed offset shifter. It puts the shifter right in the middle of the console and seems to work well. I've been banging gears for a long time, but...I guess it could be driver error. I'm not sure what I could do different to prevent this from happening, though. I'm away right now but will take it for a spin when I get home to get a better feel for what's going on. I hope you're right; if this can corrected with technique it would be better than pulling the tranny.

Tom

[TnBlkC230WZ]

I'm interested in your response too. I'm leaning towards a Richmond tranny because of the shift issues. If this solves it, I will have to give the TKO a closer look.

[KeislerRich]

Richard, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've got the Mcloed offset shifter. It puts the shifter right in the middle of the console and seems to work well. I've been banging gears for a long time, but...I guess it could be driver error. I'm not sure what I could do different to prevent this from happening, though. I'm away right now but will take it for a spin when I get home to get a better feel for what's going on. I hope you're right; if this can corrected with technique it would be better than pulling the tranny.

Tom

Tom:
I am not familiar with the McLeod offset shifter, hopefully GMJim will chime in and offer up some more good advice. That sounds like one of their products. The same should hold true here though. I'm not sure how they connect to the main rail inside the tail on an offset shifter, but it would seem like something there is loose. Certainly easy enough to check out. My other suggestion was to look at your shifting technique. I know when driving a 4 speed you have to move the handle up, over and up again to hit 3rd and I also know that if you try that technique on a TKO, it will not work. The gates are too close together. Maybe you're doing the same technique when trying to go from 4th to 5th? When you get a chance, check it out and let us know.


TnBlkC230WZ.... Your 1st response in this thread to Gene, I think you misunderstood what he was trying to convey. Use the palm of your hand and throw the shifter straight forward out of 2nd and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own (using a VERY slight diagonal movement).
AS for your comparison between Richmond and the TKO, I cannot speak to the Richmond as I have no real world experience with them. On a TKO however, I do have one and it shifts like butter. 99.9% of the time, the shifting woes you read about is the direct result of driver error and using the 4 speed technique on a 5 speed TKO. The only exception is as GMJim pointed out, back in late '05 (if I remember right) when Tremec had an issue with some loose toleranced shift lugs. They quickly and professionally fixed that issue and it is no more.
You rmain point of focus should be on what your plans are for your car? Horsepower and torque output, importance of overdrive, ease of installation etc..... If you're used to driving 4 speeds, then you too will have to re-learn how to drive, a 5 speed.


Richard
Tech Support

[KeislerGene]

I'm interested in your response too. I'm leaning towards a Richmond tranny because of the shift issues. If this solves it, I will have to give the TKO a closer look.

Maybe I didn't clarify it. Basically with the 4 speed when you came out of 2nd gear their was only one gear to the top right 3rd gear. So if you gripped the knob and jammed to the right top it always found 3rd gear. If you do that with a TKO and you handle it like that you may possibly take it into 5th or hit in between the 2 gears.

Other than a few issue's with shift dogs a little while ago I am not aware of shifting issues with Tko's. I have ran into a couple of guys at a shows that felt they had the same issue and once I showed them they havent had the issue again basically driver error.

I would take a look at the cheaper more modern and stronger TKO over the Richmond 5 speed overdrive.

Gene

[Kevin Hebert]

God I miss that transmission! What is a shift lug and can it be changed by a back yard hack?
Kevin