OCC just funny

[Tony_SS]

William, you're missing the point in that OCC makes it bread and butter off of the TLC television show contract and marketing their brand. Compare from where the revenue comes from that to their 'bikes' they sell and you'll see what business they're in. Marketing and Entertainment. Even the majority of their bikes sales are props for marketing and entertainment.



Criticizing OCC fabrication quality is like complaining that WWF wrestling is fake.

[Mathius]

To be fair, seat ticket price is a teeny tiny portion of a players salary. Most of the NFL salaries comes from TV deals and the advertising that is sold within those deals. So the fans don't have a "HUGE" part in a players salary. Just like OCC, the money they get of the actual bike is tiny. It's all the other marketing that brings in the dough.

You're splitting hairs. That stuff still exists because the fans buy into it.

Yes, I'm serious. They were building production bikes long before they were on TV.

You have any facts to support that? Because they televised their prototype build for their first production bike and the show had already been going on for several seasons.

I really don't care who buys their stuff - that's not the point. I don't take them seriously. That is the point.

Which is why you obviously feel justified in criticizing their show and their product, but one has nothing to do with the other. Frankly I don't care if you take them seriously, it just makes me think you're bias to begin with and I can't rely on your opinion of their product's quality.

NFL players ARE paid to play football. That is their product. Is there product in the sports entertainment market? Yes. But they are paid to play football. The average NFL player does not get the big endorsements. Many get League minimum salaries, and that's what they live on.

No, they're not paid to just play football, they're paid to do interviews, to appear at team sponsored events, etc. It's not a football industry, it's an entertainment industry. They don't revise the rules every couple of years because the game is broken, they do it to make it more ENTERTAINING. No matter how you want to spin it, if they were paid to play football there wouldn't be players fined for comments about refs, or for missing interviews. They're paid for a lot more than that.

I think you guys are missing the point. Frankly, NASCAR is entertainment. F1 is entertainment. ANY motorsports is entertainment. They all build a franchise and a brand.

What franchise and brand? I hope to hell you're not talking about sponsors, because that's just.... I don't know what to say to that. Lots of industries have sponsors, that doesn't make them entertainment.

I sure as hell hope you're not trying to imply that car competitions or racing didn't exist until nascar.

Some of them actually have skill, quality and intrinsic value. OCC has none of the above. THAT is what differentiates them.

That's your opinion. If nascar is not a sport (I agree with you there at least) and it is simply an entertainment industry (I believe it is), it certainly doesn't have any skill, quality, or intrinsic value, IMO. I'd much rather you snapped my ankle in half than make me watch a bunch of rednecks cheer a bunch of guys driving virtually the same car that does a bunch of laps around an oval.

Mathius

[Mathius]

Criticizing OCC fabrication quality is like complaining that WWF wrestling is fake.

That's a pretty good analogy, but I'd have a damn hard time criticizing their quality anyways, given what I know about the auto industry and what I've seen on other bike building shows and bike builders in the real world. They don't call it a chopper for nothing.

Chevy doesn't want to make wheel bearings you can replace without replacing the whole hub or make water pump gaskets last more than 75k, but we're going to criticize OCC's "fab quality" on a show where the structural stuff is all outsourced to begin with?

Mathius

[John Wright]

Their styling just doesn't sit well with me. Never really liked the look of any of their bikes....the front forks are way too long and the bikes look awkward at best to ride. I'm more of a sport bike kind of guy, I like to "turn", "stop quick" and "go fast" all with out having to stop and get on a different bike for each task...LOL

[wmhjr]

You're splitting hairs. That stuff still exists because the fans buy into it.



You have any facts to support that? Because they televised their prototype build for their first production bike and the show had already been going on for several seasons.


Which is why you obviously feel justified in criticizing their show and their product, but one has nothing to do with the other. Frankly I don't care if you take them seriously, it just makes me think you're bias to begin with and I can't rely on your opinion of their product's quality.



No, they're not paid to just play football, they're paid to do interviews, to appear at team sponsored events, etc. It's not a football industry, it's an entertainment industry. They don't revise the rules every couple of years because the game is broken, they do it to make it more ENTERTAINING. No matter how you want to spin it, if they were paid to play football there wouldn't be players fined for comments about refs, or for missing interviews. They're paid for a lot more than that.



What franchise and brand? I hope to hell you're not talking about sponsors, because that's just.... I don't know what to say to that. Lots of industries have sponsors, that doesn't make them entertainment.

I sure as hell hope you're not trying to imply that car competitions or racing didn't exist until nascar.



That's your opinion. If nascar is not a sport (I agree with you there at least) and it is simply an entertainment industry (I believe it is), it certainly doesn't have any skill, quality, or intrinsic value, IMO. I'd much rather you snapped my ankle in half than make me watch a bunch of rednecks cheer a bunch of guys driving virtually the same car that does a bunch of laps around an oval.

Mathius

Dude, whatever. Do what you want. You're saying NFL players are "entertainers" and not paid to play football but get ticked off when motorsports are brought into the discussion. OCC is great. I bow to the fabrication genius of Paul Sr and his door smashing prowess. Mikey is the epitome of business acumen. Paul Jr builds highly engineered masterpieces of technical complexity. It's all good.

BTW, I never said NASCAR was not a sport. Please read more carefully. I said it was sports entertainment, EXACTLY the same as F1, Pro-Touring, Mud Crawling, Tractor Pulling, Mud Wrestling, and whatever else you want to mention. I can make the exact same arguments about them and they are equally accurate. I could give a rats a$$ if you think I'm biased. I am. SO ARE YOU. Obviously. It's an opinion, sherlock.

[Vicinity]

Dude, whatever. Do what you want. You're saying NFL players are "entertainers" and not paid to play football but get ticked off when motorsports are brought into the discussion. OCC is great. I bow to the fabrication genius of Paul Sr and his door smashing prowess. Mikey is the epitome of business acumen. Paul Jr builds highly engineered masterpieces of technical complexity. It's all good.

BTW, I never said NASCAR was not a sport. Please read more carefully. I said it was sports entertainment, EXACTLY the same as F1, Pro-Touring, Mud Crawling, Tractor Pulling, Mud Wrestling, and whatever else you want to mention. I can make the exact same arguments about them and they are equally accurate. I could give a rats a$$ if you think I'm biased. I am. SO ARE YOU. Obviously. It's an opinion, sherlock.

I like the show, but I wouldn't call JR a genius. He's a great desiger, however.

[sniper]

They were building production bikes long before they were on TV.

That's not true, is it? I thought they didn't start building "productions" bikes until a few years in.

[Vicinity]

That's not true, is it? I thought they didn't start building "productions" bikes until a few years in.

Correct. They started out building "customs" and "one-offs". Their first "production" bike was the "web bike".

[wmhjr]

What I'm calling "production bikes" back before TV are the bikes built NOT for marketing purposes. Just like plenty of other shops around here that will (hopefully) never get within sniffing distance of any media. Sr started building bikes in the 90s. The company was formed and Jr joined in in 99. It wasn't until '02 that TV and media showed up accidentally. Zero of the bikes built before TV were "brand" or "marketing" bikes. They were no different than when I built my bike, except they were doing it for somebody else. So, my definition of "production" means anything built TO BE A BIKE AND NOT A CORPORATE MARKETING TOOL. They did that first.

[Mathius]

Dude, whatever. Do what you want. You're saying NFL players are "entertainers" and not paid to play football but get ticked off when motorsports are brought into the discussion.

Actually, you're the one who sounds ticked off. I still don't see what motorsports has to do with squat. I haven't seen you make one valid point on the issue. Throwing around random words like franchise and brand don't make valid points without an explanation.

What I'm calling "production bikes" back before TV are the bikes built NOT for marketing purposes. Just like plenty of other shops around here that will (hopefully) never get within sniffing distance of any media. Sr started building bikes in the 90s. The company was formed and Jr joined in in 99. It wasn't until '02 that TV and media showed up accidentally. Zero of the bikes built before TV were "brand" or "marketing" bikes. They were no different than when I built my bike, except they were doing it for somebody else. So, my definition of "production" means anything built TO BE A BIKE AND NOT A CORPORATE MARKETING TOOL. They did that first.

Figures. You're one of the ones acting like I'm a nutjob in the other thread that got locked and now you're off and running with your own definition of a word.

Most of us read production as in short for "mass production" (because that's what it means). You don't produce a bike in your driveway because it isn't for mass consumption, it's a one-off. You either built it or fabricated it, depending on what you started with. Now if you took that bike and developed a way to reproduce it (see where that word produce is in reproduce? Same as production? My english is an interesting language) on a large scale, then you'd be working on a production scale.

But it's ok. As long as you feel you're right in your own mind that's what counts.

Have a good day, sir.

Mathius

[zbugger]

I hear a whaaaambulance. This one is done.

[Damn True]

Whole lot of angst & vitriol being thrown around regarding a television show. Get a hobby.