OCC just funny

[novaderrik]

Apropos of nothing, I read in Jesse James' twitter stream that there is a scheduled "biker build-off" between someone from OCC (don't recall Jr or Sr) and Jesse James.

i would think it would be Paul Jr- Paul Sr is an ironworker that built bikes on the side as a hobby until Jr was old enough to start doing it.
Jesse James all by himself could probably outbuild all of the fabricators at OCC and Paul Jr Designs combined and he'd start out with a pile of tubing and sheetmetal instead of a prefabricated frames and tanks.. he also has an eye for functionality and likes to make things usable and safe.



regarding the quality of the OCC bikes- Jr is an artist more than an engineer. that's what Vinny is for.. Paul Jr doesn't care if the bikes ride or handle well or if they are fast- he's all about the image. and that image is why all those companies line up to pay $100k or more to have them build a bike for them on tv- they are buying an hour of cable tv advertising time.. then OCC keeps the bikes after they are built.. i wonder how the syndication deal works out for the companies- if they only have to pay for the initial broadcast of the episode, then the reruns are hours and hours of free ad time..

[wmhjr]

OCC is a total joke. I used to watch it for comedic value, but never EVER saw anything other than some gas tank fabrication that I had any respect for. The bikes are junk. I've seen a few of them up close, and not only would I never buy one, I'd never throw my leg over one. They are clueless about engineering and design, know nothing about performance, are sloppy in their fabrication - the list goes on. Anyone who has ever built a "harley" V-Twin knows that for one thing, lock-tite is essential. I've never seen those guys use any of it, nor have I ever seen them use anti-seize for any stainless stuff. They're better plumbers than fabricators. Their exhaust is joke - nothing but tubing with no hope of ever delivering any performance. The few bikes I've seen that OCC built were cheaply done, did not hold up, and were of no value whatsoever unless they were leaning on their kickstand.

[Tony_SS]

Well, going out on a limb here, I don't think showing them using loctite makes for good TV. That's probably why you don't see them doing it, perhaps? ;)

I wish Discovery would bring back Monster Garage though. Whats not to like about a Fox body that delivers a 72" cut at 60mph?

[Vicinity]

Well, going out on a limb here, I don't think showing them using loctite makes for good TV. That's probably why you don't see them doing it, perhaps? ;)

I wish Discovery would bring back Monster Garage though. Whats not to like about a Fox body that delivers a 72" cut at 60mph?

I loved that show! Why did it get canceled? It was really cool, and they showed a lot of fab work. It was on TV when I was like 12 and I was still interested in all the metal work they did. I remember the gas tank that exploded because the guy forgot to test it for leaks.

[wmhjr]

Well, going out on a limb here, I don't think showing them using loctite makes for good TV. That's probably why you don't see them doing it, perhaps? ;)

You just lost that limb Problem is that the bikes literally fall apart. I mean, parts friggin fall off the bikes. But even if that were there only problem then OK, maybe. But it's not. They're clueless amateurs that only got where they did by luck, and frankly have spent far more time attempting to defend their different fraud and tax evasion charges than they ever have in learning how to fabricate.

[Tony_SS]

I have no idea why it got canceled... I would love to see it brought back. I always enjoyed the characters, fab work and oddball projects for fun.

[WS6]

probably because Jesse James comes across as a huge douche bag? I don't know him personally and I know people that have met him have said that's not how he is at all but this is TV and perception is reality unfortunately. Cheating on Sandra Bullock didn't help either but that was well after the fact.

Biker Build Off was fantastic though. I really liked that show over OCC because it was about the bikes and not drama. That doesn't sale commercials and tshirts out the wahzoo like OCC did to the dumb masses though. So oh well.

[Tony_SS]

probably because Jesse James comes across as a huge douche bag? I don't know him personally and I know people that have met him have said that's not how he is at all but this is TV and perception is reality unfortunately. Cheating on Sandra Bullock didn't help either but that was well after the fact.

Biker Build Off was fantastic though. I really liked that show over OCC because it was about the bikes and not drama. That doesn't sale commercials and tshirts out the wahzoo like OCC did to the dumb masses though. So oh well.

Hey WCC sold their wares at WalMart..so one isn't much better than the other. I really lost respect for JJ after what he did.. he really proved himself to be an azz as a person.

[Tony_SS]

omg now they are tax cheats too... burn them at the stake! They media reports something and the witchhunt begins...

Its a TV show and they are building props. Anyone who orders an OCC bike probably isn't going to ride it, but display as a prop of their own. If someone gets all foamy at the mouth about their craft, they are missing the entire point of their operation.

[wmhjr]

omg now they are tax cheats too... burn them at the stake! They media reports something and the witchhunt begins...

Its a TV show and they are building props. Anyone who orders an OCC bike probably isn't going to ride it, but display as a prop of their own. If someone gets all foamy at the mouth about their craft, they are missing the entire point of their operation.

Ummm, I'm thinking you really don't know much about OCC. There is way more than tax fraud going on there according to most reports - which btw aren't just recent. And you do know they have "production" bikes, (or used to), right? Defend them all you want. It's your right. However, I see nothing of value in their craftsmanship in any way, shape or form. I see no quality whatsoever. No real thoughtful design. No engineering whatsoever. They are the exact opposite of what most on this site would appreciate. Neither form nor function at OCC. You're right - I'm missing the whole point of their operation. Care to remind me of what it is?

JJ is a talented fabricator. I may not like him and really have no interest in his builds, but certainly acknowledge there is some skill there.

[Tony_SS]

Ummm, I'm thinking you really don't know much about OCC. There is way more than tax fraud going on there according to most reports - which btw aren't just recent. And you do know they have "production" bikes, (or used to), right? Defend them all you want. It's your right. However, I see nothing of value in their craftsmanship in any way, shape or form. I see no quality whatsoever. No real thoughtful design. No engineering whatsoever. They are the exact opposite of what most on this site would appreciate. Neither form nor function at OCC. You're right - I'm missing the whole point of their operation. Care to remind me of what it is?

M o n e y. (by means of marketing their brand)

btw. I'm not defending OCC. Just pointing out that 'value' and 'craftsmanship' are irrelevant to their franchise. So its pointless to critique them on it. That's not their product. Make sense?

[twosaturns]

Tony, just when I think I have figured out where you're coming from, you surprise me. you defend OCC to the end, but slam JJ and WCC.
I take them for what they are; they are both salesmen of an image.

[Tony_SS]

I just think people sort of loose perspective. OCC is a production company selling marketing props. It's not about the loctite. JJ is a talented fabricator. Sure one might be better than the other at the actual craft, but the end goals between the 2 aren't the same.

[wmhjr]

Tony, I understand - but their product at its base is still building bikes. Yes, their intended purpose may be for marketing most of the time (though they do have a production line which is exactly that - production). However, they started before TV and they were building bikes. Not marketing. The "claim" to be bike builders - not just TV personalities. So, I feel very comfortable criticizing their physical product. And as I've mentioned, there's far more than tax fraud alleged at OCC and there has been a very consistent pattern of at the very least unethical and usually illegal business practices there for years.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The important thing here is that this site seems to be focused on well designed products and projects that have function as well as form in mind. OCC barely has form, and doesn't execute that every well. Their bikes simply don't function worth a bag of rocks.

[Tony_SS]

Tony, I understand - but their product at its base is still building bikes. Yes, their intended purpose may be for marketing most of the time (though they do have a production line which is exactly that - production). However, they started before TV and they were building bikes. Not marketing. The "claim" to be bike builders - not just TV personalities. So, I feel very comfortable criticizing their physical product. And as I've mentioned, there's far more than tax fraud alleged at OCC and there has been a very consistent pattern of at the very least unethical and usually illegal business practices there for years.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The important thing here is that this site seems to be focused on well designed products and projects that have function as well as form in mind. OCC barely has form, and doesn't execute that every well. Their bikes simply don't function worth a bag of rocks.

Their product used to be building bikes. Now they build market devices for themselves, and other brands. Under that business model they have been successful with the continuation of their franchise.

Now they should build a handrailing bike for Sr.'s old company. Lol. I'm sure it could be used as a creative finance instrument to benefit it somehow.

[Mathius]

Tony, I understand - but their product at its base is still building bikes. Yes, their intended purpose may be for marketing most of the time (though they do have a production line which is exactly that - production). However, they started before TV and they were building bikes. Not marketing. The "claim" to be bike builders - not just TV personalities. So, I feel very comfortable criticizing their physical product. And as I've mentioned, there's far more than tax fraud alleged at OCC and there has been a very consistent pattern of at the very least unethical and usually illegal business practices there for years.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The important thing here is that this site seems to be focused on well designed products and projects that have function as well as form in mind. OCC barely has form, and doesn't execute that every well. Their bikes simply don't function worth a bag of rocks.

Are you serious? They were doing theme bikes and one offs long before they ever came out with a production bike, and have you ever seen paul jr or sr work on a production bike? All that stuff is contracted to facilities that have mass production capabilities.

OCC's whole niche is entertainment, metal art, and flashy one-off accessories. Marketing.

The yuppies who can afford to pay $150k and up for a bike like that probably ride them about 3x a year if at all. Most of the ones on the show are museum pieces that sit in a lobby somewhere at a company for someone to look at.

You're taking them WAY too seriously. It's like people who say NFL players are overpaid. They're not paid to play football, they're paid to entertain, and as long as the consumer is dumb enough to pay $150 a seat to watch them play, the players are getting their fair cuts of the market.

Mathius

[sniper]

It's like people who say NFL players are overpaid. They're not paid to play football, they're paid to entertain, and as long as the consumer is dumb enough to pay $150 a seat to watch them play, the players are getting their fair cuts of the market.
Mathius

To be fair, seat ticket price is a teeny tiny portion of a players salary. Most of the NFL salaries comes from TV deals and the advertising that is sold within those deals. So the fans don't have a "HUGE" part in a players salary. Just like OCC, the money they get of the actual bike is tiny. It's all the other marketing that brings in the dough.

[wmhjr]

Are you serious? They were doing theme bikes and one offs long before they ever came out with a production bike, and have you ever seen paul jr or sr work on a production bike? All that stuff is contracted to facilities that have mass production capabilities.

OCC's whole niche is entertainment, metal art, and flashy one-off accessories. Marketing.

The yuppies who can afford to pay $150k and up for a bike like that probably ride them about 3x a year if at all. Most of the ones on the show are museum pieces that sit in a lobby somewhere at a company for someone to look at.

You're taking them WAY too seriously. It's like people who say NFL players are overpaid. They're not paid to play football, they're paid to entertain, and as long as the consumer is dumb enough to pay $150 a seat to watch them play, the players are getting their fair cuts of the market.

Mathius

Yes, I'm serious. They were building production bikes long before they were on TV. I really don't care who buys their stuff - that's not the point. I don't take them seriously. That is the point. NFL players ARE paid to play football. That is their product. Is there product in the sports entertainment market? Yes. But they are paid to play football. The average NFL player does not get the big endorsements. Many get League minimum salaries, and that's what they live on.

I think you guys are missing the point. Frankly, NASCAR is entertainment. F1 is entertainment. ANY motorsports is entertainment. They all build a franchise and a brand. Some of them actually have skill, quality and intrinsic value. OCC has none of the above. THAT is what differentiates them.

[Mathius]

To be fair, seat ticket price is a teeny tiny portion of a players salary. Most of the NFL salaries comes from TV deals and the advertising that is sold within those deals. So the fans don't have a "HUGE" part in a players salary. Just like OCC, the money they get of the actual bike is tiny. It's all the other marketing that brings in the dough.

You're splitting hairs. That stuff still exists because the fans buy into it.

Yes, I'm serious. They were building production bikes long before they were on TV.

You have any facts to support that? Because they televised their prototype build for their first production bike and the show had already been going on for several seasons.

I really don't care who buys their stuff - that's not the point. I don't take them seriously. That is the point.

Which is why you obviously feel justified in criticizing their show and their product, but one has nothing to do with the other. Frankly I don't care if you take them seriously, it just makes me think you're bias to begin with and I can't rely on your opinion of their product's quality.

NFL players ARE paid to play football. That is their product. Is there product in the sports entertainment market? Yes. But they are paid to play football. The average NFL player does not get the big endorsements. Many get League minimum salaries, and that's what they live on.

No, they're not paid to just play football, they're paid to do interviews, to appear at team sponsored events, etc. It's not a football industry, it's an entertainment industry. They don't revise the rules every couple of years because the game is broken, they do it to make it more ENTERTAINING. No matter how you want to spin it, if they were paid to play football there wouldn't be players fined for comments about refs, or for missing interviews. They're paid for a lot more than that.

I think you guys are missing the point. Frankly, NASCAR is entertainment. F1 is entertainment. ANY motorsports is entertainment. They all build a franchise and a brand.

What franchise and brand? I hope to hell you're not talking about sponsors, because that's just.... I don't know what to say to that. Lots of industries have sponsors, that doesn't make them entertainment.

I sure as hell hope you're not trying to imply that car competitions or racing didn't exist until nascar.

Some of them actually have skill, quality and intrinsic value. OCC has none of the above. THAT is what differentiates them.

That's your opinion. If nascar is not a sport (I agree with you there at least) and it is simply an entertainment industry (I believe it is), it certainly doesn't have any skill, quality, or intrinsic value, IMO. I'd much rather you snapped my ankle in half than make me watch a bunch of rednecks cheer a bunch of guys driving virtually the same car that does a bunch of laps around an oval.

Mathius

[wmhjr]

You're splitting hairs. That stuff still exists because the fans buy into it.



You have any facts to support that? Because they televised their prototype build for their first production bike and the show had already been going on for several seasons.


Which is why you obviously feel justified in criticizing their show and their product, but one has nothing to do with the other. Frankly I don't care if you take them seriously, it just makes me think you're bias to begin with and I can't rely on your opinion of their product's quality.



No, they're not paid to just play football, they're paid to do interviews, to appear at team sponsored events, etc. It's not a football industry, it's an entertainment industry. They don't revise the rules every couple of years because the game is broken, they do it to make it more ENTERTAINING. No matter how you want to spin it, if they were paid to play football there wouldn't be players fined for comments about refs, or for missing interviews. They're paid for a lot more than that.



What franchise and brand? I hope to hell you're not talking about sponsors, because that's just.... I don't know what to say to that. Lots of industries have sponsors, that doesn't make them entertainment.

I sure as hell hope you're not trying to imply that car competitions or racing didn't exist until nascar.



That's your opinion. If nascar is not a sport (I agree with you there at least) and it is simply an entertainment industry (I believe it is), it certainly doesn't have any skill, quality, or intrinsic value, IMO. I'd much rather you snapped my ankle in half than make me watch a bunch of rednecks cheer a bunch of guys driving virtually the same car that does a bunch of laps around an oval.

Mathius

Dude, whatever. Do what you want. You're saying NFL players are "entertainers" and not paid to play football but get ticked off when motorsports are brought into the discussion. OCC is great. I bow to the fabrication genius of Paul Sr and his door smashing prowess. Mikey is the epitome of business acumen. Paul Jr builds highly engineered masterpieces of technical complexity. It's all good.

BTW, I never said NASCAR was not a sport. Please read more carefully. I said it was sports entertainment, EXACTLY the same as F1, Pro-Touring, Mud Crawling, Tractor Pulling, Mud Wrestling, and whatever else you want to mention. I can make the exact same arguments about them and they are equally accurate. I could give a rats a$$ if you think I'm biased. I am. SO ARE YOU. Obviously. It's an opinion, sherlock.