four banger for the future?!

[demon1515]

If you replace camshaft like from Brian Crower, they offer some cams that just do not provide for VVTi

By the way what engine is the one you are planning to use? i may help you going in the right direction!

A good choice is getting an engine with a lot of aftermarket support, good big HP choices are:



Honda F22 S2000 engine
Honda K24 CRV engine

Toyota 3SGTE MR2 turbo engine
Toyota 2RZ or 3RZ Tacoma engine

Nissan SR20DET JDM Silvia engine
Nissan KA24DE yea the same engine in your old Nissan hard body P'UP and us 240sx

GM Eco tech Awesome engine to go with

Mitsubishi 4G63 eclipse and Evolution engines

and many others that i cant remember right now but these i just mention right here can be prepped to be a 500+ street engines and very reliable,
Also to remember these power plants will make the HP and torque high in the RPM range some with more grunt than others but talking 500+ street hp it ain't going to be at less than 4500+ RPM's!

[Six_Shooter]

I would keep it, some really nice economy and transitional gains can be found in using the VVT.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Sadly, this is all just daydreaming rite now. Im still in school for another year for my bachelors degree, and dont need to worry about driving more than five miles a day. Maybe in the next 2 or so years i would begin this project. The motor depends partly on the car i would be putting it in although im not afraid of putting a honda into a chevy, or a dodge...etc as long as it has a turbo..btw, thanks for the info on engines to look for demon1515! As far as the vvt, if i can get some aftermarket board to operate it affordably, id think about keeping it for economy reasons.

[capri v8 driver]

I also never really looked into those fuel alternatives. ive heard of them, but i didnt think they were much more efficient or cheaper than just regular old gasoline..itd be interesting too though

LPG is pretty common here.

there are some drawbacks, like the extra heavy fuel tank, price off the system and lower engery out the fuel, compaired with gasoline, but still much beter than E85.

the positive aspect, price off LPG/CNG is less than gasoline. overhere its more than 50% less, so in terms off milage for the money, its far beter and after a x amount off miles, the LPG/CNG system pays its self back for saved fuel cost.

the octaan rating is much higher than gasoline, ideal for forced induction

and for the environment, LPG/CNG is a much cleaner burning fuel, so less emmisions.

take a look in NY, most cab's there drive on LPG/CNG.

[showa]

Mustang II w/ turbo old school 4 banger..... Unexpected car that has been proven to be able to handle and not look as bad as the picture that comes into everyones mind at first mention..... Shouldn't be too expensive to do....
But then I also like the idea of a turbo air cooled bug decked out like a serious Trans-Am era racer shoulda/coulda looked....
And there is always the great Corvair, I think they're just too damn cool... I think that'll be my next project.....

[ModernMuseum]

My 02 WRX (catless, stage II) used to get ~30mpg on the highway. It's roughly 280hp. It gets about 25 now, but I expect it to be back up near 30 after I do some much needed maintenance.

I can eat Cobalts and *ahem* dodge neons all day long. Plus I can take a 90 degree turn at 40mph without flinching

[ALLstrokedOUT]

By doing some rough math, it seems as though unless you get a huge discount for buying propane in 'bulk' it would be more if not the same price as gas. although it was hard for me to find prices of propane (in lbs or gal.).
This is a pretty interseting read pertaining to propane, and attempting to inject it into the runners in liquid state via efi: http://orgs.kettering.edu/orgs/lpgvan/SAE-LPG.html

..My dad bought a corvair about a year ago, he says it gets about 17-22mpg mostly highway, some city driving with the two stock single barrel carbs (its a 68' monza 110hp). I want to fuel inject it for him, but hes afraid of technology. I LOVE WRX's, thats definatly a car i want to own one day, but i have more skill than money at the moment, and i dont think you could find one of those motors for less than an ecotec or honda sadly...

[JJEH]

Honestly, I don't like 4 cyl. engines. No displacement, less power, high revolutions to have at least some power, some of them are running really uneven and most of them are not really better in gas milage as a V6.

But since we have the Fusion (2.5L, 173hp) I changed my mind. I'm not a 4 cyl. lover but they are okay.
The Ford goes 31.5mpg/hwy and 26.x/cty what is okay to me. The Vmax of 112mph is ridiculous, but also okay.

4 cyl. turbo are common in Germany, most of them are Diesel. But I don't like 'em so much. They also need a higher revolution and they are less economic in gas milage.

Yes, i think 4bangers are the future. V6, V8, V10 and V12 are getting really expensive in the near future.
That's my opinion. I don't like it but I guess I have to deal with it...

Unless somebody invents an affordable flux-compensator for the regular folks...

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Ive never been a fan of four cylinders either, but i dont see a way around it...if you cant beat em' (figuratively of course) join em'...Ill always have my duster, and itll probably become even less fuel efficient as time goes by due to performance mods. So, if i can have a fun little fuel efficient, and affordable car for the week days like everyone else does, all my 'fun' money can go into the duster...im looking more and more at a 70's nova with an ecotec or another duster/dart with an srt4 engine. Both cars ive found on craigslist for under $2000...Like i said: cheap, light, and affordable

[Rhino]

I'm trying to pick up a '76 Vega roller to use as a commuter car. If I do end up getting it I'll be looking at an eco swap as well.

[twosaturns]

I don't see how anyone can think that they can build a turbo 300+HP reliable daily driver for cheap. the guys that try that w/ hondas have the car up on jackstands more than its driven, sinking/wasting THOUSANDS into it. building a 300hp 4cyl will easily cost TWICE or MORE what it would take to build a 300hp V8, and be less reliable.
I've been driving 4bangers for years now (couple of GTI's, a twin cam saturn, and some mazdas) and the FIRST thing you need to get out of your head is the HP number. these cars are light and make a different kind of powerband.
I don't care if they need to be rev'd, thats the fun! the 8V GTI's (110hp)I had would get over 40mpg on the hwy, and my twin cam saturn (124hp) easily got 34mpg on my lively commute, easily cruising at 80mph and still had power for passing.
sure, they don't look good in the 0-60 or 1/4, but are a hel l of a lot of fun to drive!

[Six_Shooter]

I don't see how anyone can think that they can build a turbo 300+HP reliable daily driver for cheap. the guys that try that w/ hondas have the car up on jackstands more than its driven, sinking/wasting THOUSANDS into it. building a 300hp 4cyl will easily cost TWICE or MORE what it would take to build a 300hp V8, and be less reliable.

This is simply not true, if you know how to build the car. The parts don't cost twice as much as V8 parts, so why would it cost twice as much?

Blanket statements like these should be left unsaid, since they are biased and misleading.

People keep telling me there is no way I built and turbocharged a 250(ish) HP 3.2L V6, for less than $1300 USD at the time I did it. Sure it wasn't perfect, but it was a very reliable daily driver for the two years I drove it that way. If I wasn't dumb, and pulled it apart to upgrade, I would likely still be driving it, and tuned properly by now. lol
I know that's not a 4 cyl, but is just a big brother to. With better understanding of thermal dynamics and temp controlling, along with more finite fuel and spark control, can make some very impressive numbers.

I guess we can go back about 15 years or so when people said you could "NEVER" drive a 1000+ HP car on the street, and never try to push for more. ;) Oh wait.... haha

HP/#cyl does NOT = reduced reliability

Poor workmanship + lack of knowledge + cutting corners = reduced reliability (usually)

[twosaturns]

fine, whatever.

[Defender67]

I just bought a cheap used car as a DD: 1988 Mazda MX6. It looks absolutely horrible and the body is dented on every panel. The interior is clean and it runs perfect though. I only paid $900 for it. I've had it for 4 years so far and put over 40k miles on it since i bought it (160k now). Since it looks like crap, I can park it wherever I want and not worry about dings etc. It still cruises just fine 75+mph on the highway and it gets 30-32mpg. Also, since it is such a pile it only costs me $11 a month for full insurance coverage (no comp obviously haha).

It has paid for itself over and over again. People get out of my way because it looks like I'm uninsured. Most economical car I've ever had... not the prettiest, but I have other toys for that.

[Marty G Cars]

. . . I LOVE WRX's, thats definatly a car i want to own one day

This may not exactly fit this thread but it is a four banger AND WRX powered AND it will be street legal AND a great autocross car.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2093090

[demon1515]

Let me tell you guys i have built all 4;s 6's and 8's and all in all if you do your job the right way they hold up just fine in a 500+ hp environment and daily use i have been there and done that before, my last one was a 2jz Toyota inline 6 with 1100+ wheel HP on high boost setting and other than rods,pistons, ARP hardware and cams everything else in the engine was stock and hold up very nice for couple of years of street race and every day use with couple of runs down the track doing high 8's low 9's with traction problems.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

This may not exactly fit this thread but it is a four banger AND WRX powered AND it will be street legal AND a great autocross car.

If not for the practicality in bad weather, and possible street legal issues id be building one of those things too!! You can't get any more light weight than a scaled up go-cart.

...To a point i agree that it would be a waste of time and money to make serious power out of a 4 cylinder, i dont feel that 300 hp, even 400 hp is that point. It depends on your definition of reliable..and streetable i suppose.
I found a really cool article about the ecotecs; how they pushed it to its limits, and fortified it to take more power next time. The goal in the article was 20-40 1/4 mile runs without rebuild, 800 hp @10,000rpm. Obviously, at 800 hp reliability is relative...but its interesting how little had to be done to 'reliably' handle 3-400 hp:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...ine/index.html

[JJEH]

Everything is possible if you do it right. But if it's worth it?

I drove a lot of different cars. And I remember on a ride in a 1998 Honda Integra (eu-spec.) with 1.8L and 190hp.
It's a naturally aspirated engine and the V-Tec works from 5000rpm on. Below 5000rpm this car acts like a sleeping pill.

Do I want this on a daily basis? Hell NO!

So this is what I don't like on 4 bangers, it's annoying...

[DarkBuddha]

It's fairly easy to build a daily driveable, totally reliable 300+hp turbo 4 cyl for $3k. With nothing more than some mild porting and a hefty amount of boost (22psi) you can get a lowly turbo-ified Pinto motor (aka SVO, Turbocoupe, Merkur motor) to 300hp for well under $3k, on the stock bottom end and a $200 used Holset. It won't get great mileage, but it will haul! Add an cockpit adjustable boost controller, step up to a MSII standalone, and you're right around $3k and can get even more power, driveability, and economy. Sure, if you drive it hard you'll have the usual issues like getting traction, clutch durability, and broken diffs; basically no different than any other performance built car.

BTW, John Huber won "Small block power adder" at Drag Week in '09 with a 2.5 (stroked 2.3) turbo '79 Mustang. Not your basic 2.3 turbo motor, but proof that 4 cyls can kick ass and leave the V8s behind.

[demon1515]

^^^^^^^word^^^^^^^^
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