Setting Driveline Angle - LS1 Swap with a 21st Century Subframe

[Mkelcy]

of the way my pan sits in relation to the front cross member so you can see if the motor is indeed to low. I would not want my oil pan lower than the front cross member just from a damage standpoint on that cast pan.

I am guess that you will need to raise your tunnel a bit to get it to clear the transmission.

I started out with an AFCO street rod shock and 350 lbs springs. I have DSE leafs and koni's in the back. Rode like a Caddy, but a little to floaty. Went to a 450 lbs up front and it feels great. With the new Bilstiens I may be running 500 lbs. Eventually I will be changing the leafs out...but admittedly, they are working pretty darn good.

Looking forward watching yours come together.

If you need to get a power steering pump, get it from Turn One and tell them you are running a Mustang II rack. If you already have a pump, call them and get a flow reducer. It takes about 2 minutes to pull the old one out and put the new one in. Makes all the difference in the world on the way your steering feels. Best $35 I have spent.

I've been following Steve's development of Penny because I've got both the 21st Century subframe and the LD 3 link in my car. For some reason I thought you also had the LD 3 link in your car, hence my comments on how the rear suspension in Steve's car is going to be different because of the cross-member location.

I'd appreciate the picture; that's the best way to do the comparison. The stock F-body oil pan is completely above the front cross-member, however my bellhousing may get scraped from time-to-time:



Thanks for the tip on the power steering pump. I don't have the front accessories yet - I was thinking about going with the GMPP setup.

(Boy, I look at these prictures and realize I REALLY need to clean the dump my shop has become.)

[silver69camaro]

Ouch....what about his u joint working angles.

I was noting when "serious" problems occur. He didn't know if 4* was too much...if the motor and headers clears, he's way within the limits. There is no "optimum" angle. Just set it and be done with it.

[CarlC]

Your secret is safe with me.

We can talk pumps next week Mike. I'll have some track time on mine by the time you need one so you will hopefully have several options.

What engine are you mocking up/selling?

[Mkelcy]

Your secret is safe with me.

We can talk pumps next week Mike. I'll have some track time on mine by the time you need one so you will hopefully have several options.

What engine are you mocking up/selling?

An LS1 I purchased several years ago and have been storing since. The wife was not pleased to hear that we'd been storing that big box in the garage for over two years now, and it's just going to be sold off. I've been warned I'd better refill the space or I'll lose it. Unfortunately, that will be easy to do.

[Payton King]

along with one shot from under the car. My pan does not hang below the cross member.

Have you put the frame in the car yet?

[Mkelcy]

Have you put the frame in the car yet?

I spent a nice Easter Sunday getting it in the car, along with the LD rear. I need to make the car a roller for the final body work and paint.

The passenger side head is about 1-3/8" from the fire wall. I think I need to drop the rear of the transmission about another 1/2" from where it sits now. That should be enough to eliminate some interference between the header collector flanges and the floor, aim the headers down a bit from the top of the crossmember for better exhaust routing and eliminate some minor interference between the T56 and the transmission tunnel. I'll confirm the needed amount when I pull the engine and tranny before sending it back to paint.



The header collector flanges are hitting the floor, but I was able to get the driver's side in with the frame in the car, so I think the 1/2" drop might do it.



The oil pan is nicely tucked up behind the front crossmember:



I'm installing the front running gear now and hope to get it back to the body shop this week.

[Payton King]

Went back over the entire thread. The line that you are on at the rack is a balance tube so to speak. Since the boots fit so tight when one compresses the air goes to the other boot that is expanding. Just rotate the boots towards the front of the car and the the line will not be under the pan.

My headers were close on my as well. You have way more room than I did in my tunnel from the back. I am not running the reverse lock out. Does not bother me except when I let someone else drive my car and they are grinding reverse instead of hitting 5th. I agree about another 1/2 drop and you will be golden.

With the front cap off, now would be a great time to mock up your acc drive. Depending on which system you are running and if you are running ac you may have some issues.

[Mkelcy]

Went back over the entire thread. The line that you are on at the rack is a balance tube so to speak. Since the boots fit so tight when one compresses the air goes to the other boot that is expanding. Just rotate the boots towards the front of the car and the the line will not be under the pan.

My headers were close on my as well. You have way more room than I did in my tunnel from the back. I am not running the reverse lock out. Does not bother me except when I let someone else drive my car and they are grinding reverse instead of hitting 5th. I agree about another 1/2 drop and you will be golden.

With the front cap off, now would be a great time to mock up your acc drive. Depending on which system you are running and if you are running ac you may have some issues.

I wondered what the line hitting the pan was. I'll try rotating it. Thanks for the tip.

I'm pretty pleased with the way it's going together. I'll have to decide how much to mod the transmission cross member - just drop the center, or try to arc the sides for more exhaust clearance. I'm going to run a 3" exhaust (at least from the headers to the X crossover) so more room is better.

I'm thinking about running this GMPP kit http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248708 and then getting this AC compressor bracket http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html. Not particularly pretty, but inexpensive and should be as reliable as a rock.

I was planning on sending the car to paint then blowing it apart again for final finish of all the undercarriage stuff. I've painted the subframe, but might have it powder coated; the rear and the links need to be painted or powder coated, etc., etc. I hate overspray, and I trust myself not to scratch my painted car more than I trust the painter not to mess up finished undercarriage parts.

[andrewb70]

You can use V-band collector flanges to give you some more clearance.

Andrew

[Mkelcy]

You can use V-band collector flanges to give you some more clearance.

Andrew

If the 1/2" additional drop doesn't eliminate the interference, I'll look into it. I need to add the O2 bungs to the headers anyway, so a little more welding wouldn't be a big deal, right Lance?

[Chad-1stGen]

Looking good Mike!

Either that is one tall lift or you have a steep slope just ouside your garage

[Mkelcy]

Looking good Mike!

Either that is one tall lift or you have a steep slope just ouside your garage

When we did our remodel, I wasn't able to negotiate a large enough or tall enough shop to have the lift inside, so the lift sits at the end of the pad outside the shop. Just beyond the lift, the yard is terraced steeply down about 6-7 feet and from that point the street runs down hill.

[Lance-W]

If the 1/2" additional drop doesn't eliminate the interference, I'll look into it. I need to add the O2 bungs to the headers anyway, so a little more welding wouldn't be a big deal, right Lance?

No problem. The headers are stainless or carbon steel? Either one is fine stainless just takes a different gas.

As far as the 1/2" drop have you thought about just taking that big thick flange on the crossmember end out and using something thinner? I have the V-bands on my 3" exhaust. They're awesome but pricey. Zero gaskets and zero leaks!

I'm jealous of your lift!

On second thought if you just take that big thick flange out you'll still have exhaust clearance problems the problem will just be lower.

[Payton King]

I bought just the LS1 power steering pump and it was $300.

Since you are running AC you may look at Street & Performance. They make a bracket for running the Sanden compressor low on the passenger side and back where it runs off of the factory grove in the the back of the harmonic balancer. I know the vette balancer does not stick out as far as the ls1 version, but you should still have enough room. This is what I am running. I will get you a pic tonight

[Payton King]

S&P makes it with one idler pulley or 2. I have the it with only one. I also have the belt off at this time as well.

[Mkelcy]

Payton: That tucks in there nicely. If I did that, I'd have to get some accesories that actually looked decent.

Do you have a part number for the steering pump flow restrictor? Are you running a hydroboost or vacuum or manual brakes?

Lance: The headers are showing just a touch of surface rust, so I'm assuming carbon steel.

[Payton King]

I called and spoke to the tech line about it. The site address is
www.turnone-steering.com I think it is about $30-$40 shipped. It reduces the flow not the pressure. They can explain it all to you. Made a huge difference in the feel of the steering. I know Rupp has one of their pumps in his car and it has the same flow reducer on it.

The bracket is really not fancy at all and it mount so low in the car you have to look for the compressor. The other bonus is it runs on its own belt so you can still use the Vette acc drive. I am running a stock LS pump in the stock F body location, Street and Performance high alternator mount and tensioner. I eliminated an idler pulley that comes with the kit...actually Ron came up with the idea at RTTH 4 when I was having trouble.

You can run the stock F body stuff like Rupp has done, but there is a little fitting remaking to get it to work. The low alernator position puts it on one of the rack fittings.

I had Jim Pettigres make up a custom twin master deal. They are manual and use the stock pedals.

[LSX1STGEN]

That Is a beautiful car. I saw it at the Canton GA Cruise In. Please tell me, does the S&P A/C mount use the stock camaro or corvette compressor carriage?

Thanks,

Clay

S&P makes it with one idler pulley or 2. I have the it with only one. I also have the belt off at this time as well.