a 66

[jason@gmachine]

here are the heims.

[baggins]

mind if i ask how long your link bars are?

[jason@gmachine]

Jason

[louie@g-machine]

mind if i ask how long your link bars are?

lowers are about 24" and the upper is about 19"

[baggins]

incredible tig welds... and thanks for the measurments

[dj1000]

Is that a custom rear link that you made or is it a kit?

[jason@gmachine]

Is that a custom rear link that you made or is it a kit?

its our new kit.

Jason

[wendell]

Looks great but why no vertical adjustment on the P-bar? That's a critical tuning aid. If you don't feel that adjustability is needed, how did you decide on that RRC? Thanks.

[louie@g-machine]

There is verticle PHB adjustment, just look closer. We can adjust it about 6" total at the chassis pickup point.

[jerome]

wendell is asking why there is no adjustment on the axle side. A panhard bar should be setup to be horizontal to minimize the lateral movement when the suspension travels.

My question is why is it not connected from the drivers side chassis to the passenger side rearend. With your current setup, the loading of the drivers side tire will increase turning in either direction. The drivers side tire loading is also increased by the driveshaft torque. If you put bracket on the passenger side of the rearend, then you get increased loading on that tire when you turn. This tends to cancel some of the effects of driveshaft torque

Fab work looks great, I'm not knocking it, just wondering why some of the design was done the way it was

[louie@g-machine]

wendell is asking why there is no adjustment on the axle side. A panhard bar should be setup to be horizontal to minimize the lateral movement when the suspension travels.

My question is why is it not connected from the drivers side chassis to the passenger side rearend. With your current setup, the loading of the drivers side tire will increase turning in either direction. The drivers side tire loading is also increased by the driveshaft torque. If you put bracket on the passenger side of the rearend, then you get increased loading on that tire when you turn. This tends to cancel some of the effects of driveshaft torque

Fab work looks great, I'm not knocking it, just wondering why some of the design was done the way it was

The design of the panhard bar needed to acomplish a few things. It needed to be low, level, and long. As said, the longer and more parallel to the ground the bar is, the less signifigant the axle side movement is. In our design it is very negligable. A low PHB was not as important to me as Roll steer was. Due to packaging requirements I needed the bar to be in a certain range to acomplish neutral roll steer. Its current position allows for adjustability on the chassis and some adjustments on the axle using bump steer shims while being able to dial out roll steer.

As for placement of the chassis PHB mount, there is bit more room on the passanger side for placement, and more welding surface available on the frame rail. Assuming the PHB will be parallel with the ground plane +- your coupling will be zero. As the car rolls either due to cornering or due to torque reactions caused by the motor and driveshaft rotation, your PHB will gradually put a coupling force either lifting or pushing down the axle. I have debated the merits of both ways and see benefits in both. As you mentioned, I could cancel some of the loading doing it your way, but then other loading and coulping issues come up. Suspension design is always a compromise, and for fitment and performance, I feel this is what will work the best in this car. I coul have canceled the torque by using an offeset upper link as well (and I debated doing just that) but again packaging was an issue.

[dj1000]

its our new kit.

Jason

Sent you a pm.

[jerome]

As the car rolls either due to cornering or due to torque reactions caused by the motor and driveshaft rotation, your PHB will gradually put a coupling force either lifting or pushing down the axle.

Assuming it is level, the PHB would always push or pull DOWN on the rearend turning either direction. So you want to push down on the side that isn't getting pushed down by the driveshaft torque.

As you mentioned, I could cancel some of the loading doing it your way, but then other loading and coulping issues come up.

I understand packaging comes into play, but I think it's pretty clear-cut that when the car corners in either direction, the PHB will always load the tire on the side of the rearend that the PHB is attached to. I'm not sure what other loading issues come up.

again, don't mean to rain on your parade, the car looks great. I only wish I weld like that. Just offering up some advice now so that if/when you do offer it as a kit that people aren't ripping you apart asking you these questions.

[jason@gmachine]

Assuming it is level, the PHB would always push or pull DOWN on the rearend turning either direction. So you want to push down on the side that isn't getting pushed down by the driveshaft torque.



I understand packaging comes into play, but I think it's pretty clear-cut that when the car corners in either direction, the PHB will always load the tire on the side of the rearend that the PHB is attached to. I'm not sure what other loading issues come up.

again, don't mean to rain on your parade, the car looks great. I only wish I weld like that. Just offering up some advice now so that if/when you do offer it as a kit that people aren't ripping you apart asking you these questions.

No worries man, You are simply giving your advice and I appreciate that. I know exactly what you’re talking about and I agree with you and Louie. I spent many hours at the race track adjusting j-bars and PH bars. I think Louie might be a little modest when he was saying there was a "bit" more room. More like inches verses about .5" or clearance. The main problem is the stock fuel cell location and how the stock layout of the sheet metal is. As the head fabricator I’m the one that thinks of things like welding, strength of material, thickness of material, ect. I stressed serious concern on how we would be able to make a suitable mount for the PHB on the driver’s side without cutting out the entire stock fuel cell location. This is where the line of "tube chassis" and "stock chassis" are drawn, if I were building a tube chassis (and I am) then it would be a different ball game. I would have no problem making this setup with the PHB on the reverse side if a customer would like it that way; in fact the bracket is the same for the housing. The only concern would then be the install. I feel as though we have the best result given the constraints of the stock chassis. The rear tube for the shock mounts is only about .75" into the trunk space and we wanted to keep it that way.

Again, thanks for the concern and the complement on the welding!

jason

[baggins]

looks great guys and cant wait to see some more pictures

[jason@gmachine]

4130.








jason

[wendell]

Thanks for the responses. If I do agree with your packaging constraints, I'm still currious how you determined the rear roll center. With todays shocks and tires, low rear roll centers are popular at the track.

[baggins]

any new photos

[jason@gmachine]

any new photos

i have some close up welding shots of the link arms and housing!





jason

[RobM]

nice weave! Do you have a device to rotate those link bars while you weld them? I’m looking for one so I can make a continuous weld while doing stuff like that