3 link rear suspension

[marty69212]

any of you guys ever design your own 3 link with a watts link that doesnt interfer with the rear seat ? also , if i do design my own using the lfront leak spring mounting points for my lower arms,like des or many others , does it matter how long or what angle my upper would need to be?

[andrewb70]

I think the reason that this 3 link:

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/

interferes with the seat because it is the optimal way to do it. I am not suspension expert, but from what I understand if the upper link is not long enough, bad things happen. Who needs a back seat man?

Andrew

[marty69212]

my 2 kids!!!

[parsonsj]

I did my own, and have a back seat. I used a panhard though.

jp

[andrewb70]

I did my own, and have a back seat. I used a panhard though.

jp

Yes John, but you also made your own floor pans and have a custom rear seat.

Andrew

[marty69212]

john, does the upper bar length or angle matter? i imagine the longer it is the better... did you have it designed or did you just build it yourself/???? thats pretty nice stuff!!!

[parsonsj]

True ... but with some reasonable fabrication of the factory floor and upper link frame bracket, something similar could be done, I'd think.

You will need to think in terms of bucket seats in the back, rather than a bench seat. The upper link comes in over the top of the driveshaft.

jp

[parsonsj]

Marty,

I'm the welder/fabricator. Katz Tsubai designed the geometry. And yes, the length and angles most definitely matter.

The hardest part was getting something strong enough for the upper link since the link is in "space" in most cabins. I made the bracketry that triangulated into the Morrison crossmember for mine.

jp

[marty69212]

i dont think fabing an upper link mount would be very hard.. i just dont know how to go about getting someone to design something like this

[silver69camaro]

i dont think fabing an upper link mount would be very hard.. i just dont know how to go about getting someone to design something like this

The best thing you can do is pick up a copy of Herb Adam's Chassis Engineering book, as well as Milliken's RCVD bible. Then purchase a suspension simulation software package and a couple cases of Red Bull...then go at it.

[andrewb70]

What do you plan to do with the car Marty?

Andrew

[marty69212]

i think thats the plan... u know if someone like art morrison or someone would design somethin like that , it would sell like hotcakes!!!lol ...

[marty69212]

i plan to beat the crap out of the car.. i live fairly close to road atlanta and commerce dragway !!!

[Damn True]

Do you plan on running a 5-point harness?

[parsonsj]

art morrison or someone would design somethin like that

Mark and Matt at Lateral-dynamics have something like that. My understanding is that Katz did the design. I also understand that Morrison has a 3 link design on its way too. Perhaps Matt Jones can provide more data on it.

jp

[marty69212]

both lateral dynamics and art morrisons intrude into the interior terribly !!

[hotrdblder]

so lets see, you do not know how to design a susp, but your saying both companies invaid the interior too much???
maybe just maybe thats the way it has to be?? just a guess

you could easily fabricate a camaro for use of 2 rear seats with lateral dynamics or ame

[Mean 69]

Just a point of clarification, Katz did NOT do the design of our 3-Link, I did. Katz was on the team after the design had already been completed, and worked to help out primarily with CAD drawings, and some refinement to the various brackets, etc, but the geometry of the system came from me (good or bad!).

The biggest issue you face when you try to do a 3-Link, or a 4-Link for that matter is that the packing space on these cars is pretty bad: it'd force you to run really short links on the uppers, and this can cause some issues in terms of high performance handling that most folks wouldn't be happy with at all. If you are just going to cruise car shows, or on the streets, then basically any rear suspension design is about good enough. Some are clearly light years ahead of others, but most setups will allow you to "drive" the car. You noted Road Atlanta, that is a complex, high speed course, and if you intend to develop a link rear setup to run on that or similar tracks, I'd highly, highly, highly recommend consulting a true professional that understands what the car needs to do, and how the suspension makes it happen. A ton of folks will give you advise, but few really understand all of the things that happen simultaneously, and that's where the hard work comes in to play. It is not a trivial exercise by any means.

And by the way, you CAN run a back seat with our setup, and others as well I'm sure. It will need to be a custom deal, but nothing any capable interior shop can't do with one hand tied behind their back, it's not a big deal at all for them.

And the question about the five point harness is a good one, and to play on that a bit more, what else do you plan to do for safety, knowing you intend to run high speed road courses? Things can happen out there that are completely beyond your control, and when bad stuff happens, you'd better have the right safety equipment. I haven't driven RA, but Willow Springs out here is a fast (very fast) track. Last year, during the first session, a World Challenge Ferrari broke an oil line and dowsed the whole track. I wasn't the first to arrive, luckily, as I saw a bunch of cars deep into the dirt at turn one. I had a chance to slow way down, turn one is at the end of a long straight, 140 MPH is no sweat for a modestly prep'd car. The dudes that went off were white as ghosts during the de-brief, one guy thought for sure it was all over. It happens, don't think it can't.

Sorry to be dramatic, but we get a lot of calls from folks that are hesistant to cut up the car to install a good setup in the rear. Funny thing is, when you ask them about the rest of the car, they are usually tubbed (seat mod's needed here, thank you), and "sometimes" have a cage (our strong opinion is that anyone running hard on a road course should have a appropriately done cage). It's just a bit ironic.

Mark

[silver69camaro]

I also understand that Morrison has a 3 link design on its way too. Perhaps Matt Jones can provide more data on it.

jp

We do have a 3-link setup, just like the one pictured with our Camaro Max-G photo that's been floating around. I have set up a couple different versions with varying geometry to accomodate different cars and overall packages (dimensional constraints). The ride height and tire diameter play a big role on how much the interior must be cut. Some cars may need the rear set removed, some may just need to trim the seat frame.

We've had quite a few go our the door lately, and it's terrible you have to hide most of the suspension with sheetmetal. It looks killer!

[marty69212]

ok.. im wondering about 3 links like ive seen on some mustangs... the upper link is not more than 12inches long... how is this ? lateral dynamics is like 2 feet long... also does anyone have any pics of art morrison tri link install?? i really like their stuff and plan on using their corvette front ..