DSE vs Air Ride

[Steve1968LS2]

The DSE car and the ART car were within a few tenths of a second of each other at the road track (RTHTH2).



Both have GREAT Customer Service.. just depends what you want to do.

[1Fine69]

i dotn like the sound of having to raise the car to increase spring rate though. dgoetz....what parts from art do you have running in the rear? is it this airbar system just with the qua1 shocks?

http://www.ridetech.com/productinfo/airbarstang.asp

[dgoetz]

i dotn like the sound of having to raise the car to increase spring rate though. dgoetz....what parts from art do you have running in the rear? is it this airbar system just with the qua1 shocks?

http://www.ridetech.com/productinfo/airbarstang.asp

I am using their complete kit minus their shockwave air shocks. I did modify two things. First, for the lower arms i removed the U bolt spr plates from the brackets and welded the brackets to the axle housing. That elimanated some weight and the U bolts to mount them. Second, The original upper shock brackets were to be mounted flush with the top of the frame but I moved them up two more inches above the frame in order to lower the car even more. That put the mounts into the trunk area so I had to have installed DSE shock covers inside the trunk.

[formula]

one thing that should be noted is that as you near your standard ride height, there is a significant amount of air pressure "wiggle room" that will maintain a similar ride height with relatively substantial changes in bag pressure and, thus, spring rate. I can inflate my rear springs from 85-120 psi with only about a 1" change in ride height. This covers virtually the entire driveable range of pressures, as anything below 75 is really too soft for spirited driving and anything above 125 is ridiculously hard, imo. So, yes, you do have to raise the car and the center of gravity to increase the spring rate, but it's not a direct sort of relationship...you can up your spring rate faster than you will ruin your CG.

[1Fine69]

thanks for explaining that dgoetz....i understand it much better now. and that info really makes me think about going the air ride route formula. if i went with the kit from art...which would you go with? the air bags or just use my qa1s?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, ya know what they say about opinions, and here is mine. I think all are good suspensions. I personally am liking the triangle 4 link over the 4 bar panhard set up. Weather you use shocks (Chris Alton G bar) or Air (air ride Technologies), you getting the same kit with different absorbers. Both of these set ups have a huge advantage over a Quadra Link for the home do it yourself, and that is 95% bolt in installation. Except for a few inches of welding on the axle tubes, the triangulated systems bolt into the body. So worse case scenario, if you are doing it at home without a welder, you can note the location of the rear end brackets, throw it in the trunk and get it welded somewhere without giving up the entire body to fabrication prison.

As for choosing between Air and Coil Overs. Were selling both. If the budget is there, I like the air ride Idea for adjustability, ride quality, and ride height adjustability. If the budget is tight, the G Bar is hard to beat at $1570, as evidenced by the fact we sold a few of them in the last couple weeks.

As for raising pressure / effective spring rates / raising the car with Air Ride? As Formula pointed out. Very little pressure changes in the window of useable rate hardly affects ride height at all, and by the time you change ride height enough to see a difference, your out of the usable range anyway.

Anyone considering suspension are welcome to call and discuss options. We happen to have availability to all 3 systems mentioned and can offer some un biased opinions.

[dgoetz]

One more thought about DSE as compaired to air ride is at the time a bought I don't think the DSE susp was available because I would of looked at that very seriously, I am more impressed with thier stuff than almost anyone's. On the air ride stuff there is no place to run your exh system around your axle. I am running a 3' sys with the longer flow master 50's and had to exit them them right in frt of the axle towards the ground. I don't know if that is true with the DSE set up. If I went with a side exit like DrR Gases stuff I would actually have to bring the exh forword before i could exit it which would give me more than an 90 deg bend from the muffler.

[Mean 69]

Or, if you are really serious about the rear setup and don't have issues with cutting the car up a bit (for instance, as is necessary for the DSE kit) for installation, AND you'd like to run big ole tailpipes out the back (as in over the axle) that any competent muffler shop could easily install and doesn't require a custom fuel tank to do so, you could look at our setup (3-Link, Watt's, super cool, super functional). Ours is the only setup that allows the user to adjust roll center height, instant center location (i.e for higher/lower levels of anti-squat), roll steer characteristics, and of course ride height, all in a completely bind free fashion.

And by the way, we'll have answers shortly on how to run the AirRide Shockwaves on our setup for folks that are after that route as well. We have a customer doing a max effort 69 that will blow you away, using our system in combination with the shockwave 7000's.

Cheers!
Mark

www.lateral-dynamics.com

[1Fine69]

wow this is awsome info....so many things to decide. all i know is that almost anything is better than my leafs! thanks so much

[MonzaRacer]

OK so I got to ride in a Camaro with the ART stuff,,,WOW WOW, WOW, um that car was BADDDD. A 427 SBC, TKO600 and ART all the way around and we took a favorite offramp I used to take to work in Bloomington Indiana (fella came over to have me tweak on the carb I built for him, it didnt like curves much),,,, well we gotthe carb set up and he tested it through that curve at well over 100 mph, dont get mewrong I NEVER would have rode if I knew he was going to do that on the highway,,but it was like 3 in the morning with no traffic either.
BUT still in that curve that I took my truck through a lot and liked to play with ricers on the aRT setup pulled all the way through and he had exhaust out back.
when we went back out on the 37 he made a 2 lb change in back and was satified with the change.
He told me that when on track he could change by as much as 7 or 8 lbs either way and never affect the height/stance but could tune the setup so quickly it was scary.
He loved it and had even taken off some DSE stuff as he wastrying for a different look/idea.
He never bashed the DSE stuff but the aRT setup fit his particular setup better.
I asked him if he had any problems with the tailpipes and he said he got them in stainless, then thermal barrier coated and then he wrapped a few inches next to the bags with a high heat wrap available at any good airport parts store or you could even use header wrap. He used Oeteker (CV boot) clamps to fasten that on the pipes and it had been on for close to 10k miles and looked great.
Good luck with what ever you do run.
Lee

[1Fine69]

so monza..... are you saying with the art setup i can run tailpipes? i got 3 inch over the axle out the back with delta force 40 flowmaster race mufflers. it took me months to get it to soudn right and i dont know if i could deal with any different sound now haha

[ProdigyCustoms]

And by the way, we'll have answers shortly on how to run the AirRide Shockwaves on our setup for folks that are after that route as well. We have a customer doing a max effort 69 that will blow you away, using our system in combination with the shockwave 7000's.

Cheers!
Mark

www.lateral-dynamics.com

Now that sir is very intersting stuff.

[wendell]

Rick Dorion is spot on. I said tall spindle but a tall bj is equivalent. Regardless seems far more elaborate setups are in favor. All these guys with fancy setups must go aweful fast cause I know how fast the simple stuff can go.(fast)

If you're hell bent on a more intricate setup, follow PROBELL's lead. That car works. So does the Laterial Dynamics stuff.

[yellowrallys]

While both companies offer extremely nice pieces, I must admit to not having experienced the air ride set up. However I have a 1st gen Camaro with a few suspension mods, and I like the ride/performance/feel of the car. But after driving DSE's blue 69, I can tell you that it is an awesome suspension package. My wife's 06 Mustang's handling is nothing compared to that car.

[MonzaRacer]

The big trick is to insulate the pipe s and not get the air springs hot. There are several things that can be done like a custome heat shield hanging beside the spring even.
The camaro had the pipes flanged with owner built custom low profile flanges and he used allen bolts to smooth things out( I think I have pick but gotta put new batteries in the camera before turning it back on.
He decided he on trying to use his set up with pipes and the thermal barrier coating looked great, it would help in keeping the pipe wrap from degrading the pipes, he used multiple heat control items and has never had an issue with the air ride stuff.
The big trick is to keep the pipes clean(ie mandrel bent stuff) and he had it in multiple sections which kept his coating costs down.
I saw in one industrial catalogue there is even a ceramic coating available that will hold in 350 -650 degrees and never burn or degrade and is supposed to be very tough in the elements (its ment for smoke stacks).
A little research might give some better answers and Ill look for the pics this week after I find my extra batteries.
Lee

[1Fine69]

thanks aot for all the help...those pics will be a great help. i think orderign the air ride kit without the airshocks would help me out alot. im just not to confident with the spring setup. i always think about the rear moving on me. im actually having a problem right now. i started it up for the first time after sending the carb and distributor out while it was on jacks. i got it running correctly and went through the gears. everything is fine but in 5th gear at around 2200 a very bad humming/rumbling starts. it sounds like something is possibly missaligned. more diagnosis has to be done but this has never happened before.someone said possibly a bad wheel bearing?? hhmmmm anyone got any ideas?

[darren@ridetech]

Talk to Stainless Works for 67-69 Camaro tailpipes that will work with the AirBar; they are making one specific for it.