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    Results 1 to 12 of 12
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Eastern PA
      Posts
      6
      Country Flag: United States

      All Wheel Drive 64 Fairlane help needed

      Alright so I'm progressing along in gathering parts for my all wheel drive 64 Fairlane conversion but I'm losing sleep on component height placement and making sure I get my wheelbase correct.

      The aim of the build is to make a well rounded good handling cruiser, think a "what if Ford made an all wheel drive K-Code Fairlane in the 60s"...side note, no I am not cutting up a K-Code, just my lowly U-Code 4 door.

      The build is also partially based on an all wheel drive 68 Mustang convertible build over on the Vintage Mustang Fourms.

      What I have so far is this:

      Strut assemblies, steering knuckles, control arms and brakes are off a 2010 Mazda3 due to their light weight, compact placement, ease of availability and the fact I can fit 15" Torq Thrust wheels on that setup.



      Front diff is looking like a SyTy generation 7.2 IFS out of an S10, Blazer etc. Aluminum unit again for weight savings and I don't intend to push the power levels that would necessitate the iron unit. I would've loved to use the Ford 8.8 IFS from a second gen Explorer as I already have that complete setup from a failed donor idea and because I'd like to keep it as Ford as possible but the GM unit seems to be more compact.

      Engine will be an iron block 302 topped with aluminum heads and intake. From what I'm seeing although numbers seem to vary is 500-600lbs.

      For steering I'm *hoping* to use the 2nd Gen Explorer rack as 1)I have it from the failed donor idea and 2) the Explorer has a similar, albeit slightly wider track than the Fairlane.

      Trans will be a T56, 8.8 Cobra IRS out back and the transfer case under the back seat.

      For tires I'm looking at running P235/60/R15 which come out to 26.1" tall.

      I currently have the car sitting on 7" tall blocks under the rockers which drops the roof line roughly 1.5" below what a stock 64 would be.

      Now, I know roughly where things should line up but I want better than "roughly" and "should"

      I have angle finders, I have levels, I have plumb bobs and tape measures...I even have the factory dimension sheets for the Fairlane. I also have a crippling sense of anxiety as this car is my baby and I really don't want to wind up with a pile of scrap metal.

      So, with all that said, what's the best way to start locating those front end components on the Fairlane.


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,722
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by blueroo View Post
      Alright so I'm progressing along in gathering parts for my all wheel drive 64 Fairlane conversion but I'm losing sleep on component height placement and making sure I get my wheelbase correct.

      The aim of the build is to make a well rounded good handling cruiser, think a "what if Ford made an all wheel drive K-Code Fairlane in the 60s"...side note, no I am not cutting up a K-Code, just my lowly U-Code 4 door.

      The build is also partially based on an all wheel drive 68 Mustang convertible build over on the Vintage Mustang Fourms.

      What I have so far is this:

      Strut assemblies, steering knuckles, control arms and brakes are off a 2010 Mazda3 due to their light weight, compact placement, ease of availability and the fact I can fit 15" Torq Thrust wheels on that setup.

      Front diff is looking like a SyTy generation 7.2 IFS out of an S10, Blazer etc. Aluminum unit again for weight savings and I don't intend to push the power levels that would necessitate the iron unit. I would've loved to use the Ford 8.8 IFS from a second gen Explorer as I already have that complete setup from a failed donor idea and because I'd like to keep it as Ford as possible but the GM unit seems to be more compact.

      Engine will be an iron block 302 topped with aluminum heads and intake. From what I'm seeing although numbers seem to vary is 500-600lbs.

      For steering I'm *hoping* to use the 2nd Gen Explorer rack as 1)I have it from the failed donor idea and 2) the Explorer has a similar, albeit slightly wider track than the Fairlane.

      Trans will be a T56, 8.8 Cobra IRS out back and the transfer case under the back seat.

      For tires I'm looking at running P235/60/R15 which come out to 26.1" tall.

      I currently have the car sitting on 7" tall blocks under the rockers which drops the roof line roughly 1.5" below what a stock 64 would be.

      Now, I know roughly where things should line up but I want better than "roughly" and "should"

      I have angle finders, I have levels, I have plumb bobs and tape measures...I even have the factory dimension sheets for the Fairlane. I also have a crippling sense of anxiety as this car is my baby and I really don't want to wind up with a pile of scrap metal.

      So, with all that said, what's the best way to start locating those front end components on the Fairlane.
      I do not have anything to ad here, except that you have a cool idea! Looking forward to seeing the suggestions that you get.

      Also, this might be a good candidate for a 2.3L EcoBoost Mustang engine...

      Andrew
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    3. #3
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      424
      Cool idea.

      GM front diff + Ford rear diff? Wouldn't you need an identical gear ratio in both? That seems like it's asking for trouble IMO.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Eastern PA
      Posts
      6
      Country Flag: United States
      You can get away with varying the tire sizes but I decided on the "easy route" of finding a gear ratio that was offered in both which turned out to be the 3.73s

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Dec 2011
      Location
      Planit Oahu, Hawaii if you don't belive me check shipping prices
      Posts
      246
      Country Flag: United States
      To set up the front, I would start with the known mounting points for your front A-arms. (If using a donor suspension) from the car that you are getting the parts form, make a “jig” so you have the mounting points, and wheel flange point. Then start from your wheel placement and work in. Make R & L 1/2 shafts equal length, and a 3* offset. You will also have engine, frame, front diff, steering, and everything else to place and deal with clearance for each.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Dec 2015
      Posts
      2
      Country Flag: United States
      Great project!

      I have made an V8 AWD car in the past and I am currently working on a AWD 2017 Mustang.

      Anyway, I would be careful about what spindles you use. Most FWD spindles have the rack and pinion behind the front wheels. If you use them in a traditional RWD setup with the rack in the front (generally considered better), the ackerman steering will be all screwed up.

      Do you plan on keeping the rack in the back like the stock fairlane steering box?

      You can get 3.73 and 4.10 gears for both the 7.2ifs and ford 8.8. I have used both in my AWD setup.

      Tim
      XR4X4Ti

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Moving from Burbs of Detroit to my native homeland, the woods of Cascadia
      Posts
      1,734
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by xr4x4ti View Post
      Great project!

      I have made an V8 AWD car in the past and I am currently working on a AWD 2017 Mustang.

      Anyway, I would be careful about what spindles you use. Most FWD spindles have the rack and pinion behind the front wheels. If you use them in a traditional RWD setup with the rack in the front (generally considered better), the ackerman steering will be all screwed up.

      Do you plan on keeping the rack in the back like the stock fairlane steering box?

      You can get 3.73 and 4.10 gears for both the 7.2ifs and ford 8.8. I have used both in my AWD setup.

      Tim
      XR4X4Ti
      Tim-

      Any build thread on the Merkur?
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

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    8. #8
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Eastern PA
      Posts
      6
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by FlyDoc View Post
      To set up the front, I would start with the known mounting points for your front A-arms. (If using a donor suspension) from the car that you are getting the parts form, make a “jig” so you have the mounting points, and wheel flange point. Then start from your wheel placement and work in. Make R & L 1/2 shafts equal length, and a 3* offset. You will also have engine, frame, front diff, steering, and everything else to place and deal with clearance for each.
      FlyDoc, by the 3* are you talking about the caster, how much the struts lean in towards the center or something entirely different?

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Eastern PA
      Posts
      6
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by xr4x4ti View Post
      Great project!

      I have made an V8 AWD car in the past and I am currently working on a AWD 2017 Mustang.

      Anyway, I would be careful about what spindles you use. Most FWD spindles have the rack and pinion behind the front wheels. If you use them in a traditional RWD setup with the rack in the front (generally considered better), the ackerman steering will be all screwed up.

      Do you plan on keeping the rack in the back like the stock fairlane steering box?

      You can get 3.73 and 4.10 gears for both the 7.2ifs and ford 8.8. I have used both in my AWD setup.

      Tim
      XR4X4Ti
      I'm planning on using the Mountaineer steering rack with placement just ahead of the front differential.

      For the spindles/steering knuckles, on Mike's (the guy with the awd 68 Mustang I'm basing my build off of) he has the Mazda3 knuckles swapped side to side...left knuckle on the right side and vice versa.

      He did run into some Ackerman issues at first but he seems to have overcome that, I'm just not entirely a fan of his steering system. IIRC he uses an 80s T-Bird rack flipped forward, going into an Isuzu (?) steering box to reverse the direction then an intermediate shaft running parallel to the frame rail before going to another joint to go up to the wheel. By no means am I knocking his build, I just feel like there has to be a, for lack of a better term, easier way to do the steering.

      I'm very open to suggestions if there's a better spindle candidate you can tell me of...or any other front end component. The build is still very fluid at this point and I'm learning a lot of this as I go so I realize there may be things I have missed, overlooked or not seen yet.

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Dec 2015
      Posts
      2
      Country Flag: United States
      I think I found the 68 you are referring too.

      https://www.vintage-mustang.com/thre...663780/page-12

      Is there a thread on this forum?

      I am a fan of any AWD conversion and his workmanship looks great. But, yes, the steering takes a weird path. It is easy to through stones, but I think something better can be done.

      I would look at Subaru spindles, they have the rack in the front.

      I need to get a web page or build thread for my build. I plan to make a video once my Mustang is off the lift in a few weeks. But, here are a few pictures that you might be interested in:

      Name:  front_diff.JPG
Views: 63
Size:  581.3 KBName:  DSC00741.JPG
Views: 63
Size:  584.6 KB

      I have the diff bolted to the engine and the jack shaft goes through the oil pan like a lot of modern cars. This frees up a lot of space.


      Here is a picture where I was practicing a launch with a new suspension setup:



      Tim
      XR4X4Ti

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jun 2010
      Location
      Eastern PA
      Posts
      6
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by xr4x4ti View Post
      I think I found the 68 you are referring too.

      https://www.vintage-mustang.com/thre...663780/page-12

      Is there a thread on this forum?

      I am a fan of any AWD conversion and his workmanship looks great. But, yes, the steering takes a weird path. It is easy to through stones, but I think something better can be done.

      I would look at Subaru spindles, they have the rack in the front.

      I need to get a web page or build thread for my build. I plan to make a video once my Mustang is off the lift in a few weeks. But, here are a few pictures that you might be interested in:

      Name:  front_diff.JPG
Views: 63
Size:  581.3 KBName:  DSC00741.JPG
Views: 63
Size:  584.6 KB

      I have the diff bolted to the engine and the jack shaft goes through the oil pan like a lot of modern cars. This frees up a lot of space.


      Here is a picture where I was practicing a launch with a new suspension setup:



      Tim
      XR4X4Ti
      Yup that's the one Tim. And by no means am I knocking any aspect of his build..he's completed something that still only a few of us have even attempted.

      Any idea what Subarus run a macpherson strut setup with the tie rod in front of the centerline? I tried calling a couple of Subaru places yesterday and the answers I got were all over the board on if they even had them. I especially loved the "suspension specialist" who said "No they never used that brand"

      How did you run the jackshaft through the oil pan? I've looked at doing that but one the setups I've seen it almost looks like the oil pan is set up as a structural piece in those applications.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
      Posts
      1,330
      Country Flag: Canada
      If youre searching for a syty diff, the only difference from a s10 or blazer is that they dont have a selectable shaft. You can buy lock out rings to convert a 4x4 front diff into a non selectable awd "style"

      With that said, Id contact Bully Racing. He has a ton of Syty,s series diffs. I run his cyro treated and assembled diff in my Typhoon. Top notch business!
      Matt
      72 Chevelle 370ci LS Turbo. Speedtech equipped.
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