Price Quote from a builder question: Too high???

[76TA]

Hello,



My name is Andrew and I'm about to begin the second chapter of a pro-touring build. I know what I'm about to ask is a very difficult question to answer but I want to pose it because I'm afraid the price quote I was offered is a bit high.

I own a 1976 factory 400 4 Speed car. Single owner car. Rust free. 32,000 original miles. Numbers Matching car.

In 2008 I had a four link, 8 point cage, Strange Rear end, Rear Brakes, Interior completely redone and mini tubs installed for approx. $15,000.

I've recently decided to start the next chapter and will be having the following things done:

1) Discard everything forward of the firewall (motor, front sub frame, transmission, wheels, suspension, brake booster, radiator) (THROW OUT EVERYTHING)
2) Replace factory front sub frame with Detroit front sub frame
3) Replace factory body mounts with solid body mounts
4) Add in weld in Detroit Speed sub frame connectors
5) Discard driveshaft
6) Strip car of all fuel lines, brake lines, factory gas tank, exhaust, exhaust hangers, clips, clamps (EVERYTHING UNDER THE CAR EXCEPT for the 4 link rear suspension and brakes
7) Wire brush, prep, seal and paint entire under side of car.
8) Add new/gas tank (OEM style)

Assuming I purchased and paid for all parts (including the new tank, frame, connectors, body mounts and hardware)......how much would you be willing to spend on the LABOR for this? I guess the better question would be how many MAN HOURS should I be expecting?

I would post what I was quoted but I'd like un-aided opinions so I don't skew your take on this. I'm curious because the quote I was provided was including a very vague write up and before I drop off the car and before I sit down with my builder I'd like to have as sound of an opinion as possible.

I need to add in that I've already removed the fenders, hood, inner fender walls, interior carpet, seats, belts and center console so the builder doesn't have to worry about that!!!


Thank you,
Andrew

[lxg44]

Andrew

My limited experience has shown me that you should be more worried about the actual hours you end up being charged then the hours included in your quote. Even the best of the builders seems to have difficulty providing a reasonably accurate estimate on what it takes to complete a task.

Good luck with your build.

[dhutton]

120-150 hours. Number 7 could have a wide variation.

Don

[Razzor67]

These type of questions come up daily. I run a bodyshop. We do a lot of custom work. It always comes down to how nice you want the job to turn out. I believe Slimjim on this site can tell you that if you find the right shop you can get your money's worth. The wrong one will burn through every single dime you planned on spending and look for more. I would suggest you do your homework on the shop you choose.
I doubt a quality shop can give a firm price. Most are going to quote by the hour and materials.

[ccmc]

Separate each and every possible thing you want done and get separated quotes on them. Then you can pay to have one step completed and only that step. If it goes over time or cost you're only out on the one step you're working on. Of course I don't know if a shop would agree to this or not.

Rick

[dhutton]

Separate each and every possible thing you want done and get separated quotes on them. Then you can pay to have one step completed and only that step. If it goes over time or cost you're only out on the one step you're working on. Of course I don't know if a shop would agree to this or not.

Rick

If someone asked me to do the above job that way I would decline the job. It's clearly going to be a hassle....

Don

[slimjim]

my experiences have been good and bad, and hourly rates can be a funny thing when one tech can do in one hour what takes another 4 hours. I got done for about $30k(@$90/hr) replacing all the panels on my car before pulling it and moving it to a shop I couldn't speak higher of, You could imagine my face when I saw another camaro a little further ahead than mine that had $12k invested into it.. the new shop is a slightly lower hourly rate and the results speak for themselves. Multiple quotes can be a good idea for this reason. post your location and you may get some help regarding great other possibilities

[Razzor67]

I agree with Don a lot of the work you want performed can't be separated. Not really all or nothing but close. You can always do it in stages. We often receive jobs where we do the rough bodywork. Then months later see the same car for the next stage. For the most part it's payment as the work is done and full payment when the car is ready to pickup.
Ray

[rjsjea]

Quotes are just that, just a quote......not realistic. More important to find a shop that you trust and have references (cars to check out for yourself).

[rickpaw]

120-150 hours. Number 7 could have a wide variation.

Don

I would agree with Don regarding the hours, assuming there are no surprises when stripping the bottom of the car.

Not knowing your skill set, time constraint or space set up so it's hard to say; but, alot of the work you described are just labor with no real special tools required (other than welding in the subframe connectors). You can just save alot of headache and money doing it yourself.

[Tincup]

One thing that I always worry about is that when a shop quotes you a price, then runs into a problem, they start cutting corners to make up for lost time. I personally think that the best way is " Time and Materials" that way you get a better job, and the shop get a fair price. JMO

[chuckd71]

1,3 (depending on if there are caged nuts that can spin like on a Chevelle),5,6,7 and 8 could be done in a 3-4 day weekend if you do them in the right order. All of these are pretty simple things and don't take much time to do if you have jacks, a hoist and basic tools, which could be purchased for a few hours worth of labor. If there is gunk or grease on the bottom of the car you'll probably spend more time with the wheel and waiting for layers of paint to dry between coats than doing anything else.

I know that doesn't answer your question, but rickpaw is right. By doing the mindless unskilled labor parts yourself you'd have a ton left to pay for the welding and aspects that require talent (plus you wouldn't be leaving your can in shop limbo for as long). You can get a lot of it done at once in step 1 http://transamcountry.com/community/...?topic=46657.0

[TheJDMan]

Not knowing your skill set, time constraint or space set up so it's hard to say; but, a lot of the work you described is just labor with no real special tools required (other than welding in the subframe connectors). You can just save a lot of headache and money doing it yourself.

I would have to agree with this. Everything you have on your build list is bolt in or just hand labor except the subframe connectors and those have to be done last with the cars weight setting on the wheels.

[minendrews68]

A big thing on cost is location. Something done in California is going to cost less in Arkansas. Doesn't mean the work is going to be better or worse, it's just that some areas have a larger cost of living. I would do as mentioned above and get their hourly rate for what you want done. Above all do your homework and really look into the shops past jobs. Ask for references and call them. If a shop has a problem giving out references I would be hesitant to use them. On the other hand if they don't mind, then they must be confident about their work.
All jokes aside, Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't leave anything to guess work. The better you both understand each other the better off you'll be. How nice you want the work to turn out depends on how many hours they are going to have to work to get it to your satisfaction. I also agree that the more you can do (if you can, or have the resources), since most is labor you'll know how it's going to be done and could save a ton of money. Lot of variables, do your homework! Most here are more than happy to help in any way, so keep an open mind and don't be afraid to ask questions here. By the way, where are you located?
Oh yeah, we all like pictures, lol

[76TA]

Thank you for the comments,

I'd post up the builder but I'm going to opt not to until the build is under way. I want to add in that I'm going with the same builder who did the cage, rear end suspension, rear axle, brakes, and interior previously (back in 2008-2009).

I met with my builder on Friday and we went through exactly what I wanted to get done. It's located in upstate NY and I'm assuming the hourly rate is far below what some members expect to pay in Cali/Texas/FL and KS. The NY rate is just $75 an hour.

After talking with my builder who I do trust, we settled on $5,000 for all work previously listed. That includes supplies as well. My builder is also going to be kind enough to come to my home, pick up the car, transport it to his shop in an enclosed trailer and deliver it back to me. He and I both know that the car will go back to him when it comes time for brakes, fuel system, Mast LS7 SS Black series and T-56 install.

He has an LS1 and T56 laying around in the shop so we decided to cut the trans tunnel now rather than later, too.

The only variable as some members pointed out is the under coating. The car has not seen winter or rainfall since 1979 however my builder pointed out that IF the car has that "gunky undercoating crap" from the factory the cost could sky rocket due to the extended time required to remove it. When the interior was done I remember distinctly that those floor pans and truck pan are nearly flawless so I'm confident that no surprises will arise. I'm just hopeful that the under coating I "feel" under there isn't the 'gunky crap' he was referring to.

[dhutton]

Factory undercoat comes off fast with a propane torch and a putty knife. The cost should not skyrocket....

Don

[HotRod47]

Factory undercoat comes off fast with a propane torch and a putty knife. The cost should not skyrocket....

Don

Done that many times and it works great!

[TheJDMan]

The factory undercoat also comes off easily with lacquer thinner.

[killer69]

If someone asked me to do the above job that way I would decline the job. It's clearly going to be a hassle....

Don

i agree. time is money on both sides. if you constantly have to stop and start and undo and redo it will cost more in the end. the OTHRE thing is i will bet you 5.00 once the work starts this is how the conversations will go "So i was thinking since you have the x out can we do Y and what will that cost" the shop will give a estimate but in the customers mind it never gets added to the original amount. it happens on every job

[minendrews68]

i agree. time is money on both sides. if you constantly have to stop and start and undo and redo it will cost more in the end. the OTHRE thing is i will bet you 5.00 once the work starts this is how the conversations will go "So i was thinking since you have the x out can we do Y and what will that cost" the shop will give a estimate but in the customers mind it never gets added to the original amount. it happens on every job

At which time, this should be added to the original contract so that it will be in writing..