My Ride Tech lower Strong arms are too narrow!

['71cutlasluvr]

I hope this is appropriate for the ER. My hands aren't dirty cause my frame is stripped, painted and supported by tacked welded angle iron to suspend it for easy access during the suspension install.

I waffled a long time over coil overs or air bags, and finally decided on the latter. I purchase just the front and rear Shockwaves and the front lower a-arms as I have SPC upper a-arms and ATS spindles.

I drilled the 3/4" hole (was 5/8" stock) to accept the front Shockwave. I then tried to insert the lower strong arm into the chassis. It didn't Fit! Thought I was losing my mind so installed the Hotchkiss lower a-arms I had installed several years ago and they slipped right in! What the heck??

I measured both arms and the inside bushing to bushing dimension for the strong arms is 3/16" NARROWER than the hotchkiss (and I assume, stock) a-arms. I called the salesguy at ridetech and he's flabberghasted. They have sold thousands of these strongarms for gm a-bodies and I'm the first one to have a fitment problem. If it was 1/32 or even 1/16" I could do some massaging but 3/16"? Might as well be a foot off. I shouldn't have to.. this is supposed to be a bolt in update.

ridetech doesn't list olds cutlass' as one of the muscle cars their products will fit, but I was assured that the same setup for a chevelle would work. I had no reason not to believe him since the Hotchkiss pieces are for a chevelle also....

Be advised, the frame has never been in an accident and I had a frame alignment shop straighten what little was needed while it was on the hotchkiss suspension before I primed and painted the frame. It's dead straight. No damage at the a-arm mounting points.

Thought maybe I should go coil overs but that setup uses the same strong arm a-arms.
I really wanted to make this work.... didn't really want to mess with coil overs and the air shocks made sense as I'm getting older.

I bought from RT since they have a stellar rep and have a highly rated customer service department. But I think I'm gonna get a cold shoulder on this since there seems to be no explanation as to why this is happening. I'll probably take a hit on shipping and maybe a restocking fee. I would really like to avoid that!

Anybody ever run into this with ride tech strong arms on their a-body chassis?? If so, how did you make it work? I'm $3k in the hole and have wasted two weekends on this mess. All input would be appreciated.





'71CL

[WallaceMFG]

Mine bolted in no problems. Maybe a bad one slipped through, it happens to everybody once in a while.

['71cutlasluvr]

Mine bolted in no problems. Maybe a bad one slipped through, it happens to everybody once in a while.

Thanks for your quick response. Yeah, I thought that too but the sales rep (who also builds them) says he uses a jig for repeatability. I sent him the dimensions (strong arms were 8 5/8" inside dimension bushing to bushing, the hotchkiss is 8 13/16") and he says that is correct for the strong arms. How can it be?? I'm at a loss... I'll ask him to re measure... perhaps he made a mistake.

Thanks for the input.
Anyone else? Please?

[SSLance]

Mine were about an 1/8" off the same direction as yours. The back ears can be moved pretty easily to accommodate the arms. I used a little machinist screw jack to put in between them to spread the front ear forward enough to get the bushing in, then used a crescent wrench to nudge the rear arm forward.

They are hot rods...sometimes they or the parts you are trying to put on need a little loving to make them all place nice together.

['71cutlasluvr]

Mine were about an 1/8" off the same direction as yours. The back ears can be moved pretty easily to accommodate the arms. I used a little machinist screw jack to put in between them to spread the front ear forward enough to get the bushing in, then used a crescent wrench to nudge the rear arm forward.

They are hot rods...sometimes they or the parts you are trying to put on need a little loving to make them all place nice together.

Great Advice. Thank you for the detailed procedure for the fix. It makes sense and I am capable of "tweaking" the ears if it means saving my project from hitting a wall.

I'm not much of a machinist and not familiar with machinist jacks. There isn't much space between those "ears". What size jack would you recommend and where can I find the reasonably priced one?

Why the heck didn't the ride tech sales guy/welder explain this? Could it be he didn't want to admit his Jig may not quite be set up correctly? Go figure. I know there is always going to be tweaking and fabricating with this hot rod hobby, but I expected the Strong arms to slip right in. The hotchkiss ones did!

Thanks for saving the day Lance. I owe you a beer!

atb
Gus

['71cutlasluvr]

BTW: Love your Monte!

[andrewb70]

BTW: Love your Monte!

Call them and ask them what the dimensions should be for the arms. Things happen and the arms could be off. There is 100% interchangeability between GM a-body clones in terms of suspension.

Andrew

['71cutlasluvr]

Call them and ask them what the dimensions should be for the arms. Things happen and the arms could be off. There is 100% interchangeability between GM a-body clones in terms of suspension.

Andrew

Hi Andy.

Good to hear from you. I've been gone a while but trying to get my pro touring project back on track.

I explained your point to the tech support rep three days ago and even sent him the strong arm dimensions AND the differing Hotchkiss arms dimensions (which fit with no struggle). He said the strong arms are correct! (?) He countered with they have sold thousands of these without issue for all a-bodies. He didn't seem to want to hear it but was very polite about it. But what I needed I didn't get.... No offer to make me a "correct" set (he told me he actually welds these, I guess when he's not providing tech support) or at least measure another set for me to see if I got a bad pair. I even sent pics, although in a separate email, and he said he didn't get them. I sent them again early afternoon yesterday. Didn't hear from him. Sent another email late afternoon, asking if he got them this time and can he please give me some options.....Nothing! Really? You drop $3k on 4 air shocks and two lower a-arms and you can't even give a frustrated customer a timely response? Really?

I don't want to waste another weekend not being able to assemble what is supposed to be a bolt on kit. Very frustrating. I expected better from Ride tech. I hope the rest of the experience is more rewarding. Maybe should have gone coil over with Detroit speeds stuff...... Time will tell..

Thanks for weighing in Andy.
Excuse me. I gotta try to find a machinists jack screw that will fit between 2" and 3" or thereabouts.
atb
Gus

[andrewb70]

Gus,

It is very hard for me to believe that they are simply throwing their arms in the air and not digging into this further. Are you certain that the arm pockets on your frame aren't compressed? You say that they are off by 3/16", which isn't much. Each pocket would have to be compressed only 3/32" to cause the issue. Perhaps you can post pictures of the arms and your frame?

Andrew

['71cutlasluvr]

Well the rep didn't let me know if he got the pics so he hasn't weighed in. He has been polite and perhaps "throwing his arms in the air" is a bit dramatic, but he's not giving me any options. Sticking to his "have sold thousands" mantra. I'll have to resize the pics then I can attach them but they don't show the pockets very well. What they DO show is the Hotchkiss TVS arms fit perfectly with very little effort to line up the bolt holes. Right now I'm feeling I've been left to fend for myself. Expected more.

I'm going to run with Lance's suggestion. Ride tech hasn't given me any other options....

Pics coming soon. Not good at that resizing thing yet.
thanks for the effort Andy.
g

[andrewb70]

....

I'm going to run with Lance's suggestion. Ride tech hasn't given me any other options....

.....

That's what I would be doing. In fact, as I recall, I had to do that when I installed my Global West arms back in 2002.

What bushing material do the Hotchkis arms use? What about the ridetech arms?

Andrew

['71cutlasluvr]

as promised. Here are the pics.

['71cutlasluvr]

That's what I would be doing. In fact, as I recall, I had to do that when I installed my Global West arms back in 2002.

What bushing material do the Hotchkis arms use? What about the ridetech arms?

Andrew

Agreed !

The hotchkiss is a hard rubber I think. The Ridetechs are a very hard plastic. Kinda wonder about that. The difference in dimension between the two arms is the amount the bushing protrudes from the ride tech arm on one side. See pic. In other words, if I cut off one side of one bushing, it would probably fit. So close.... But for the price, they should fit perfectly... Never read anything to the contrary.... guess I'm in the minority.

Just placed my order for this. Rush delivery for Saturday. I should call ride tech and ask they pay for the tool. Sheesh.

http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-190A-...t+2%22+to+3%22

Thanks again Andy (and Lance). You still thrashing that beautiful goat??
atb
Gus

[SSLance]

That is exactly what I used Gus, it'll work perfectly. When bending the ears, go a little bit, then back off...go a little bit more, then back off. Test fit the arm and keep going until the arm moves freely inside the ears. Put the screw jack as close to the frame itself as you can get it.

It is not a difference in the arms...it is the factory tolerances on the frames themselves... That's why the factory arms use those big ol rubber bushings in them, to make up for the slop in the factory frame manufacturing. What you are going through is not that uncommon.

I thought about trimming my delrin bushing as well but went the other route and it was the better decision.

Now, be careful and don't crank those bolts down so tight that you put the control arms in a bind. To work their best, they need to move freely.

[SSLance]

BTW: Love your Monte!

Thanks... Can't wait to see your car done as well.

[andrewb70]

Gus,

I think what happened is that when the Hotchkis arms were installed, the bolts were tightened down too much and crushed the pockets. Now you have hard bushings that don't give and the pockets are too small. Spread them out and you'll be good to go.

Andrew

['71cutlasluvr]

Hi Lance. Glad I found the right tool.

Thanks for the additional detailed instructions. I can see how I could spread the ears too far apart if I get a bit carried away with the jack screw. I'll be careful and do a bit at a time. Did you use any sort of lithium grease for the hard plastic bushings? I thought I saw mention of the lithium grease in the instructions.. maybe not, can't remember, but perhaps you found a better lube.

Thanks again for the help. A load off of my mind. Too bad the AR support rep couldn't have mentioned this. Glad the forum is here with helpful hotrodders like yourself and Andy.

I'll check in with this thread once the arms are in. Now I can work on the rears while waiting for the jack screw. Was afraid of going any further in case I had to return the kit. Took some time off so i can dedicate getting some work done. Fri - tues. Hoping to get the suspension completely in and have a rolling chassis by wed.



atb
Gus

['71cutlasluvr]

Thanks... Can't wait to see your car done as well.

Yeah, that makes two of us! The drivetrain is a 468 out of my RIP 'vert, pretty stout. A th2004r and a auburn posi 3.08 12 bolt rear end rounds out the drive train. Want to get the drivetrain in and start the engine as it's been sitting a couple of years since the 'vert got wrecked. (Hit a telephone pole avoiding a deer) I don't have a build thread since the project is so on and off, but I have added my numerous pics, thoughts and questions on another thread I kinda hijacked.... https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...O-Build/page20. Fortunately Eric and Mike are kind soles and didn't mind me jumping on. You can see lots of pics and my waffling between prebuilt chassis, narrowing the chassis, coil overs and air ride (we know how that ended, don't we?) I will probably continue to post there although haven't lately due to the air ride fiasco. If the spirit moves, subscribe to the thread... Eric is a master fabricator and Mike has built a beautiful goat as well albeit plagued with engine issues that I hope has corrected by now. Not much activity lately but read through the whole 20 pages if you have time. I wish I had a fraction of Erics skills!

atb
Gus

['71cutlasluvr]

Gus,

I think what happened is that when the Hotchkis arms were installed, the bolts were tightened down too much and crushed the pockets. Now you have hard bushings that don't give and the pockets are too small. Spread them out and you'll be good to go.

Andrew

You may be right Andrew. I don't think I did the over tightening of the Hotchkiss arms.....the car was never "done" while the those arms were on the chassis and the bolts were left finger tight, so never torqued to mfrs specs. However, the car IS a converted drag car so perhaps a previous owner overtighened the stock arms (which came with the car) pinching the pockets a bit. Who knows.. the cars 44 years old!

I agree, the Hotchkiss arms softer rubber may have helped, but they always slipped in with minimal effort. I think the compression of the pockets is the main culprit, as you say. I still don't understand how there can be such a big discrepancy between manufacturer's, but I'm glad there is a relatively easy fix!

Thanks for the input. You and Lance have taken a load of worry off of me. Much appreciated.


atb
Gus

[andrewb70]

Glad to be of help.

Andrew