Surprise bill on Project?

[skigoose]

I am just asking the opinion of you guys out there.

The shop working on my car ( and they are doing good work) gave me a quote to assemble my 68 Charger with all the parts I supplied them, they came out 3 times to check parts and est. the job, well we are coming down the home stretch, and all of a sudden they are saying it is gonna take another 50 hours of work..Keep in mind I understand that this is Kinda a custom build, but nothing that they have done was not in the scope of the project est. if anything was needed in addition to what I supplied, I paid them for it right away, now it seems that I have made my final payment and my car is on the back burner in the shop. The owner asked if I would split the hours with him, because of the surprise, but I am having a problem with accepting that

Any suggestions??

[dmc69]

Depends on how your initial contract was written(If there was a contract). Read over it and use it to your advantage.

[MyFriendScott]

What was this "surprise" work required? You haven't given us the he said, she said details. All you've led us to believe is that the shop is holding your car ransom now until you pay more.

Love the car by the way, wish it were mine.

[MuscleRodz]

what is the reason given for the extra time? These car just don't fall together like we would all hope, and sometimes requires extra attention to properly install the part. Depending on your agreement would depend on whether or not it should be paid. An estimate is just that, an estimate unless your agreement was "X" dollars and not a penny more. I tried to be as clear as possible with my customers as to what will cost "X" and what may cost more on certain tasks of the builds.

[Protour_Pinto]

Things always come up on Custom Builds. Its always a challenge to stick to the ESTIMATE. Some shops will shoot low to get the job then at the end spring extra on you. Talk to some of his past customers and see if its something he has made a habit of doing. At this point you are stuck paying but be sure to let him know that word of mouth and the internet sure make it easy to spread the word.

[gsxrken]

What percentage of the job does 50 hours represent? An estimate is an educated but never in the history of mankind has an estimate been lower than the actual.

[skigoose]

Sorry for not giving all the juicy details, OK, so I and the shop agreed on a price to use all the parts I had, and the shell I provided, they had to Fab a trans mount, and make the Vintage air fit, the job entailed installing the engine and supension (front and rear) running all the lines, trans, and wires, so the car can START, GO (front and back) stop, and the ac would work, I have paid and extra $2500 over for parts they said would work better than what I provided, and would require less time to install, so I agreed, now there is 18 hours left on the job (this is the remainder of what the shop guys have submitted) and the shop guys are saying they have another 50 hours, on top of the 18 left, the whole job was to be 250 huors est, and the price was a fixed amount. I would completely understand if I asked for something extra, or added something to the project, but this is not the case, FYI, I will still be doing the interior, windows, painting, and final connectors for the wires myself, also all the parts they installed, except the AC and wires was test fitted in the car before I gave it to them. took me two 6 hr days by myself without a lift.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

So the estimate is about 20% off, for a custom job? Thats not bad, but did they say why more hours are being required? I often find that aftermarket parts don't fit like they should, or may have issues that have to be worked out for reliability or safety. Not knowing the details its hard to say here, but this is exactly the reason I don't give firm estimates on labor...custom work is just that, custom work, and there is no "book time" on this stuff (I wish there were). I have often stated to customers that doing something for a fixed price ensures that someone is getting taken...either the customer, who was charged too much, or the shop, who didn't charge enough. I'm very concious of quality, but some shops aren't. They realize that they are running out of time/labor money on a job, and start cutting corners. I charge a fair hourly rate, and make adjustments if I think we took too long on a particular job.

[Flash68]

An estimate is an educated but never in the history of mankind has an estimate been lower than the actual.

LOL... ain't that the truth.

[MuscleRodz]

Sorry for not giving all the juicy details, OK, so I and the shop agreed on a price to use all the parts I had, and the shell I provided, they had to Fab a trans mount, and make the Vintage air fit, the job entailed installing the engine and supension (front and rear) running all the lines, trans, and wires, so the car can START, GO (front and back) stop, and the ac would work, I have paid and extra $2500 over for parts they said would work better than what I provided, and would require less time to install, so I agreed, now there is 18 hours left on the job (this is the remainder of what the shop guys have submitted) and the shop guys are saying they have another 50 hours, on top of the 18 left, the whole job was to be 250 huors est, and the price was a fixed amount. I would completely understand if I asked for something extra, or added something to the project, but this is not the case, FYI, I will still be doing the interior, windows, painting, and final connectors for the wires myself, also all the parts they installed, except the AC and wires was test fitted in the car before I gave it to them. took me two 6 hr days by myself without a lift.

If they talked you into parts that should have reduced the install time, you should have bankable hours, but if you do not have the fixed cost on paper, you may have to eat the half he agreed to split with you and move on, but not before you put it on paper. BTW, what parts did they not want to use?

[skigoose]

If they talked you into parts that should have reduced the install time, you should have bankable hours, but if you do not have the fixed cost on paper, you may have to eat the half he agreed to split with you and move on, but not before you put it on paper. BTW, what parts did they not want to use?

Orig, I had XV subframe connectors, and they were part of the orig quote, I even provided them with a video of the instalation, said it would take about 10 hrs to get them to install, so they asked if I would use Global West ones and that the XV's would take to long.

I am thinking about splitting the overage, but $$ is very tight now, as I am not working, and I know if I gave someone and estimate to do a job and I went over...I would have to eat it... But this shop was my 4 estimate and they were all about the same, this one was the higest, but the shop was cloest to my house and had very good references.

[MrQuick]

if it wasn't estimated it should then become an "option" for you to take or not. Then builder knows he's in a spot so that would explain the split but i'd negotiate for less or a credit of good faith.


On a side note, if I made an error on a quote I'd have to eat it.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Projects like this always run over...stuff comes up. Its all a matter of degree....... 20% isnt bad....if it was alot higher and you can honestly say that your didnt add stuff or say "while you do this, can we do that too?" after the estimate was made, then I wouldnt be happy

If he's willing to split the "over" with you, and you are happy with all the other work he has done and have a good relationship with the shop, I'd pay my portion of the "over" and get it done.

You're alternative is to say "no, I'm not paying for the stuff over the estimate"....with the results of..

(1) Not get the project done
(2) Have him cave, do the rest of the work and not do a good job because he's pissed and knows he's losing $$..so the work will be crap anyway
(3) Take the car and have someone else finnish it...which will likley cost you more $$ in the long run

[MonzaRacer]

My big question is that the owner and the techs work there, they should have seen that they were going to go over and should have brought it to your attention much sooner in the process.
I have been the tech who messed up an estimate, not 50 hrs worth,,,but I would want a DETAILED reason for such a departure on estimates.
I would go over it with him. Details, also coming to an agreed time frame, payment line if so agreed upon and as said,, in writing.
I understand CUSTOM takes some risk in over or under estimates,, BUT again this should be calmly discussed AND after you both come to an agreed upon deal, recommend he take some measures to NOT have this happen again or a means to renegotiate.
I see both sides, I have NO money and will most likely NOT get what I need to make car run from my taxes. And will most likely use all of it to pay bills and live for another month.
I had hoped to be alive and working by now,,,, still debating asking for some help from family to start a shop of my own.
Good luck.

[skigoose]

Ok, guys here is the the plan.

I am going to agree to $1000, not 1500, and to do this I am selling my 2010 GT500...sounds extreme? well.. I still need to get the windows and interior done, and this is supposed to be my daily driver..so.....here I go, if you want info on my 2010 Shelby GT 500 let me know.

[dj3]

That is not major custom work for them to be off by 50hrs. A shop that does it on a regular basis should be closer to what they quote you.

[DTM Racing]

It is all about responsible quoting. Putting together a good estimate for this type of work takes a lot of time. As soon as the shop knows the estimate is going to go over, the owner should be notified. And the owner should be involved in the build, at a minimum with weekly updates, where parts are, what has come along, where there are stalls, etc. Any "surprise" raises in the estimate are inexcusable.
However, Ned probably hit the nail on the head. If you put him in a bind, there is a good chance that your car will get back-burnered, and the craftsmanship will suffer.

[HUSTLESTUFF]

If you do go the extra $$$$, I would have a deadline that is firm and is $100 a day off for you. 5o hrs is one guy for 6 days. There isn't that much custom in that project. The front end already has mounts for 3d gen hemi, brakes straight forward. Your custom work was mainly in the products you bought IMHO. Mike

[MyFriendScott]

Hard to make those demands about fining the shop if they run over when they have your car as collateral.

[skigoose]

Just an FYI, my labor bill in now PAID IN FULL, and they are trying for an additional 50 hours, any additional they ordered, I have paid for IN FULL. so I do not owe them anymore money, I don't think they can hold my car as collateral, CAN THEY???