sloppy steering, out of ideas!!!!

[69camarokid]

ok so forthe last 4 to 5 months ive had about 4 inches of dead steering on my car. About 2 inches left and right of dead center.

I decided since im going the pro-touring route to redo the whole steering system to fix this issue and make the steering more track friendly.

Thus far i have purchased and installed a CPP 500 series steering box, new pitman and idler arm, plus all new inner and outer tie rod ends. And yet my steering has not changed at all. I still have dead steering and it is really pissing me off. I got an alignment as well, and this made the cars manners better, but no help on the dead steering.

Im supposed to be taking the car on a road course tomorrow andi would really like to get this fixed first... ideas???

[joemac]

Possibly slop in the steering shaft? Or a bad box? I've got a little '93 ranger that I've got 2" slop in the wheel, an inch either way. I'm planning the same things you have already done except a good custom solid steering shaft. 4" sounds like a lot just from the shaft though. Good luck and I'd be interested to hear what it ends up being.

[KacyZ28]

Have you checked the rag joint on the shaft?

[69camarokid]

i forgot to mention the rag joint is brand new as well.

Had the gf turn the wheel while i was underneath and there is no slop between the steering wheel turning and the rag joint.

Sooooo im still confused,.

[KacyZ28]

The only thing left i cna think of is maybe when the gear box was built/rebuilt they didnt set the gear mesh so it gives a sloppy feel.

[latamud]

I had a lot of slop in my Barracuda and it was mostly from the steering coupler. The rest of the play now is in the box. I did have an issue of small tapered inner tie rod ends that weren't seating.

[69camarokid]

Went back through everything and was able to get the slack down to what feels like about 2 inches of play, but thats while the car is in the air, so who knows howmuch play there will be on the ground.

Turned out the pitman arm was a little loose so the bushing would slide side to side before hittingthe end of its travel and pulling the actual pitman arm with it.

Im going to try tightening the box once its back on the ground and see of perhaps the new box was shipped a little loose?

[John Wright]

Im going to try tightening the box once its back on the ground and see of perhaps the new box was shipped a little loose?

I dunno brother.....you might want to give the steering box mfg a call before you do any adjusting on the box itself. They might not stand behind the new steering box if you don't get the lash set right. A new box should be ready to bolt on, you shouldn't need to adjust anything. (easy for me to say sitting here though)

[JEFFTATE]

I dunno brother.....you might want to give the steering box mfg a call before you do any adjusting on the box itself. They might not stand behind the new steering box if you don't get the lash set right. A new box should be ready to bolt on, you shouldn't need to adjust anything. (easy for me to say sitting here though)

Ditto , the new box should be set for pre-load and lash .
If you overtighten it , you will cause premature wear in the box..

It may be , that you DO need to tighten the preload , and thus reduce the lash in the box , but it should have been done when it was rebuilt.
Get a repair manual for your box / vehicle , or look up the specs online , and adjust according to the specs ..
It usually requires an inch pound torgue wrench ..

Double check all your steering linkage ( and wheel bearings too )
I've seen loose wheel bearings cause play..

[John Wright]

Don't forget the ball joints...get the car's front tires just barely off the ground and use a pry bar under the tire and rock the tire to see if there is any play in either ball joint.
Hope you find the offending problem, and get it fixed up so you can enjoy a track day or two.

[68Formula]

Have someone move the wheel back and forth while you look under the hood. Try to see when he moves it, what various components in the system move with it, and which stay stationary.

[69camarokid]

Have someone move the wheel back and forth while you look under the hood. Try to see when he moves it, what various components in the system move with it, and which stay stationary.

I have done this many times and here is what i have seen each time. All the components under the car are tight and new and all turn in unison with no slipping or smushing of the nushings. They all work well.

The wheel and rag joint move in perfect unison with each other leading me to believe that there is not issue in the steering coloum.
What i do notice though, while under the car, is that the rag joint will turn about 50 to 60 degrees before i see the steering box begin to turn the pitman arm.

I have noticed that, and it may only be my imagination, the pitman arm moves oh so slowly as the rag joint turns and then once it finishes that 50 to 60 deegree turn it seems to speed up to normal speed.

Also for whomever said check the ball joints,the tops are brand new with less than 100 miles on them and the bottoms are 3 years old but i checked them with the wheel wiggling technique and they are good.

this is killing me. the car jumped half a lane last night all on the free way by itself.

[69camarokid]

I talked to CPP to see if they had any ideas since i was using their steering box. THey had me attempt to tunr the ragoint by hand. I was able to twist the rag joint with no real effort.

They said this probably means the box is loose. The tech guy advised me to try tightening the box a quarter turn and see if that does it. If not they want me to send back the box. I really hope that i dont have to, its just soooo much extra work. Ive been under this car working on various things for the last week nad a half andi dont want to have to redo this too.

ill let you know how the lash goes.

[Nessumsar]

Sounds like maybe something is bound inside of the box? Is the rag joint tight?

Sure seems to be narrowed down to those 2 items.

edit: you posted as I did, so the rag joint it tight and it has to turn 50* before the box does? Sound like a loose worm gear to me.

[JEFFTATE]

Perhaps the pinch bolt on the rag joint is loose ???
Like , the rag joint is loose where it goes on the splines on the steering box ..

[69camarokid]

Perhaps the pinch bolt on the rag joint is loose ???
Like , the rag joint is loose where it goes on the splines on the steering box ..

ill check that out because i tightened the box quite a bit and it seemed to make very little difference

[Rybar]

Maybe you have the incorrect size rag joint for the box or steering shaft? I would check the spline count and OD measurement on both ends.

Did you purchase the new rag joint from CPP as well?

[Nessumsar]

Make sure you don't overtighten the box!

With the wheels n the air, turn lock to lock and make sure the box doesn't bind anywhere. You can kill a box very quickly if left too tight.

[Mingus]

Sounds like you have narrowed it down to the rag joint or box. I would have a problem with a brand new box that not only has slop, but that they tell you to try and fix for them. I tried to talk myself out of a Lee box several times, but kept hearing about people having problems with AGR. I finally bit the bullet and got one (a 670 even because the 800's were backordered). I am so glad I did. Bolted it on and it worked perfect.

[JEFFTATE]

I second the Lee Box .